The CIA has a guy named Peter Zeihan on Joe Rogan pushing his book, trying to convince people that Russia is weak, backwards, etc perhaps trying to change the mindset of the American people to accept the idea that a WW3 against Russia is winnable or doable or whatever. The guy is a smooth talker but full of shite. He is even stating that China will not be around in 10 years. More and more 'experts' are trying to convince Americans to go to war, even stating that our military is so good and big that we can even take on the whole world at once- actually heard them say this today. We are being conned into WW3 like we were conned with Covid etc. Wake up America. It may be the end of the world as you know it.

No offense but Russia is weak, stupid and plain backwards on almost all aspects.
No person with a functioning brain would support Putin in this case
Putin is a traitor to the slavic people kinda like Stalin that killed his own people. Coward would be a very fitting term for such an disgrace but i guess you commies loves being pathetic self-destructive cowards.

This post was edited by meWW on Jan 26 2023 11:36am

Wasn’t the West telling us Ukraine was winning and Russia was weak? The truth is coming out slowly that NATO bit more it can chew this time. It grossly underestimated Russia strength and resolve. Russians beat Napoleon and Hitler’s mighty armies and will sacrifice whatever to defeat the US and NATO.

And where does the moral lens take us? They had their own country: Ukraine. NATO took it from them with a color revolution. The status quo ante, with a free and fair democracy, was a pro-Russian majority in control of the country. Palestinians didn't have a democracy prior to Israel, nor did they successfully defend their lands for years, nor were they allied with a country strong enough to protect them. I don't think that comparison gets very far, more akin to the Israelis than Palestinians.

There's not a shred of believability to post-maidan CIA-managed Ukraine laying claim to the DPR and LPR. They only overthrew the government in Kiev, they never took control of the separatist regions nor do they have any legitimate claim to them. Any democratic stake was clearly thrown out the window, and the population is obviously hostile to NATO and pro-Ukraine. So how can any NATO-armed force moving into the DPR/LPR be considered anything other than an invasion? Nor does that need to reframe Russia invading west Ukraine as anything else

The best hope we have ATM against the delirious lies above is NATO to help Ukraine to get rid of this agression, up to get this insane klepto-fascist regime down.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 26 2023 12:46pm

Ukraine has been steadily shifting towards the west pre-2013, the margin western candidates lost by slimmed more and more until the last free and clear election where they lost by a tiny amount but won comfortably in the capital region and more developed regions of the country. at which time all the CIA had to do was nudge and boom, revolution. they didnt want to wait another 4-8 years to take it democratically. and of course had they taken it democratically and signed western friendly legislation and/or applied for NATO membership application there's a chance the separatist govts spring up in the eastern half of the country anyways and a proxy war begins.

this is a deeply polarized nation that was universally anti-Russian in most places a few generations ago because they were starved. and the fall of the USSR and ethnicity lead many to fall back into a pro russian mindset. now those poor souls are just meat for mother russia to stave off western creep. its false narratives squared, some behind closed doors non formal agreement between 2 diplomats in the cold war is being lauded like it's a UN resolution signed by all nations, and russian ethnicity is used as an excuse to build strongholds in a war they're clearly outgunned in unless they really want to start laying waste.

where does this leave us morally? in a choice between 2 terrible things. 1.) endure war and kill millions 2.) split Ukraine like we did Germany and each take half. like all moral philosophy applied to the real world the trolley lever is never as simple as kill 5 through no action or 1 through the pull. we have to weigh most notably if its better or worse for the future of the human race to allow Russia to survive, and then what to do if they dont. Ukraine or not Russia has been encircled for decades, and with good reason, they are the bad guys in this story. diplomacy and authoritarian nations are oil and water. we communicate with guns and money, just like Reagan and all those before him did. the tree lost it's limbs, time to knock her down, and just make sure she doesnt fall on the garage.

All of that seems like its pretty moot when the free and fair democracy was unambiguously overthrown in a coup d'etat. I mean we can create what-if scenarios about whether Ukraine could have gotten a groundswell of organic support for the west and then whether Russia would be the ones to take an overt aggressive action to subvert Ukraine's government. But instead it was a CIA operation, so all the moral questions are thrown out the window. They had a democracy, we overthrew it.

Now the most probable outcome of the war has always been a split Ukraine, with Russia seizing the valuable east- as they already have- and the EU absorbing a bunch of hungry mouths to feed in a bombed out ruin of the west. (Syria 2.0) And if we were acting pragmatically, there was no need for a protracted war to arrive at that point, nor can we find a better outcome through our non-committal force of arms. Instead we're flatly rejected any peace deal that would formalize that inevitability and using the meantime to stoke more death and destruction and hurtle us onto a path towards nuclear conflict that could end civilization. So its pretty hard to make a case for the rationality of our approach.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jan 26 2023 12:50pm

Lol you wish moron. Crimea voted 98,9% to be part of russia of a reason.
But yeah let's ignore what the acual population wants because i'm a woke beta incel following medias at every opportunity in my desperate life

yes but that election wasn't legitimate, russia was clearly controlling it
whereas the elections in western ukraine with half the country disenfranchised and opposition party banned and dissidents being assassinated by nazi death squads, that was legitimate and internationally recognized

Yes, let's rewrite history at will so saucisson6000 doesn't look wrong at every post.

I'll start with Israël, which is a great country. Probably the most legitimate country to rule all humans because God chosed them.