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#101
Mar 11 2022 03:51pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 11 2022 12:41pm)
Its very easy to understand in terms of spheres of influence. Reaching NATO membership is just the extreme. NATO expansion isn't just a creeping process, its a gradual one in each country. Ukraine was within the Russian sphere of influence for hundreds of years. It was wrested from Russia's sphere and put on the distant edges of the western sphere via the Euromaidan coup. Ukraine wasn't anywhere close to being a NATO member then, nor was it now, and American administrations have generally acted around the hazards of provoking Russia with NATO leaping forward. But that creeping influence still remains. And as long as Ukraine was not firmly within the western sphere, it was vulnerable to being seized back by Russian by force. Which is what is happening right now.

We can call it Putin making Ukraine his puppet, but America was pretty blatant about it this time around too. If the powers that be could have kept their fingers out of Ukraine's pockets, we could pretend our motives were altruistic and for the benefit of Ukrainians.


Don't the Ukranian people have any agency in their country? They overthrew their government in 2014 because the people wanted a west-ward turn and Yanukovych was a de facto russian puppet. The only person saying it was an American coup is Russia, and its weird how closely you parrot the Russian line across the board while feigning objectivity.
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#102
Mar 11 2022 03:58pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Mar 11 2022 12:25pm)
The common sense here is that putin wants to install Ukraine as a puppet and NATO is a distant second concern.

Hes been highly aggressive in the area for a long time and it cant all be explained by NATO.


Are you trying to argue that he doesn't care about NATO at all?
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#103
Mar 11 2022 03:59pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 11 2022 10:11pm)
the United States of America will not negotiate with Russia as if it's our equal, period.


Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 11 2022 10:28pm)
Russia isn't our equal, why would we worry. if they launch nukes MAD happens.


No, but US can't negotiate like it owns every country that isn't Russia either.
Nuclear weapons and MAD are also equalizing factors, not none factors.
Ukraine is Russian backyard and Russians have proven willing to go to war and endure the consequences of sanctions to make that point.
Whatever punitive actions may be taken against Russia, when push came to shove the US was not able to protect Ukraine or project meaningful power on the ground there.
Sooner or later the security arrangements of Eastern Europe will be renegotiated to Russia's advantage due to this invasion... the sanctions are a bargaining tool of questionable efficiency.


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#104
Mar 11 2022 04:03pm
Quote (Nibthebarb @ 11 Mar 2022 21:58)
Are you trying to argue that he doesn't care about NATO at all?


He's a fuckhead who only think about old great USSR and so on do not want Ukraine to switch on West values, which is understanble considering it's a very big country with alot of fertile lands.
He's probably missing it by alot since Siberia will end up as a new new world with global warning, but he will be dead at this time. Russia being dismantled right now is a fantastic opportunity for Europe and even US.
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#105
Mar 11 2022 04:12pm
Quote (Nibthebarb @ Mar 11 2022 03:58pm)
Are you trying to argue that he doesn't care about NATO at all?


The answer is in the post you quoted.

Look up what "distant second" means.
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#106
Mar 11 2022 04:24pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Mar 11 2022 02:12pm)
The answer is in the post you quoted.

Look up what "distant second" means.


Lol just admit ur wrong
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#107
Mar 11 2022 04:25pm
Quote (Nibthebarb @ Mar 11 2022 04:24pm)
Lol just admit ur wrong


Mad cause your straw man got dickslapped?
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#108
Mar 11 2022 04:27pm
Quote (Nibthebarb @ Mar 11 2022 01:58pm)
Are you trying to argue that he doesn't care about NATO at all?


There's an easy concept here.. Putin doesn't get to decide if people do/do not join NATO.
Just because he doesn't like it, doesn't mean he can carpet bomb hospitals cuz he mad.
And the thing I REALLY think he gives zero fucks about is "Nazi's and drug addicts" I'm pretty sure he's 90% NAZI himself.
he is a dishonest POS.
/end
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#109
Mar 11 2022 04:28pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ Mar 11 2022 02:27pm)
There's an easy concept here.. Putin doesn't get to decide if people do/do not join NATO.
Just because he doesn't like it, doesn't mean he can carpet bomb hospitals cuz he mad.
And the thing I REALLY think he gives zero fucks about is "Nazi's and drug addicts" I'm pretty sure he's 90% NAZI himself.
he is a dishonest POS.
/end


whoa there big mad :rofl:

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#110
Mar 11 2022 04:31pm
If its not on CNN it didn’t happen 💅
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