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Aug 25 2020 12:36pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 25 Aug 2020 20:27)
You're confusing "were not rioting" with the problem going away. The problem has been a constant, the response has been cyclical.

The issue, by staying the same, is getting worse because our expectations are getting higher, as they should. If your stocks are performing at 0% you're losing money


America is... or at least it was moving in the right direction on race relations for much of the 90s and early 00s. And you're confounding the problem of racism with the problem of violent riots and looting. These are two related, but distinct problems. Cities burning is not helping racial justice, period. If anything, it is making matters worse becuase it hardens racial attitudes among whites (and potentially also among hispanics and asians).

If Trump gets reelected, then BLM overreach will be one of the main reasons.
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Aug 25 2020 12:38pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 25 2020 01:36pm)
America is... or at least it was moving in the right direction on race relations for much of the 90s and early 00s. And you're confounding the problem of racism with the problem of violent riots and looting. These are two related, but distinct problems. Cities burning is not helping racial justice, period. If anything, it is making matters worse becuase it hardens racial attitudes among whites (and potentially also among hispanics and asians).

If Trump gets reelected, then BLM overreach will be one of the main reasons.


The 90s was the era of tough on crime with very thinly coded racial crime laws.

Relations were not getting better. Again, you're confusing relations getting better with groups not calling out the problem.
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Aug 25 2020 12:41pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 25 2020 11:09am)
I would say the trend has actually been the opposite. Accountability and generally less racism in policing has been a trend for quite a while now. No it's not perfect, yes there's still cops that make mistakes or are racist but if we look at rates over time we were definitely trending towards the positive.

What really changed during the last 4-5 years in my opinion, is the framing of this discussion though. It's political opportunism fueled by media that's a conduit for those narratives being pushed. News outlets created national level week long stories about some black guy being shot. The narratives are constantly that he's the victim irregardless of some of the extenuating circumstances, for example Mike Brown manhandling the brown store owner and charging the cop. If the media was honest in the framing and not trying to push a politically advantageous spin i think vast majority of blacks would agree that robbing someone and then trying to fight a cop and getting killed is a natural and justified consequence, doesn't matter the race. Instead the narrative is gentle giant gunned down by racist cop and racist system in place protects the cop, which is utter bullshit.


I agree that it's trending in the right direction. However, the average person is just NOW being made aware of some of the corruption, unfair practices, and ugly history we have in this country. As Americans, we really need to hold our institutions to a higher standard.

I think it's naive to think that blacks give a shit what the media pushes. As a matter of fact, I'm sure most would argue that the media has ignored them for decades.

Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 25 2020 11:10am)
The statistics dont bear that out. Unjustified police shootings are such a rarity that the BLM protesters still have to pad their complaints with the likes of Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin. When cops have actually murdered someone, they're far more likely to be held accountable, to be arrested and stand trial and be convicted- than the average black man killing another black man. Most of which to unsolved and unaccounted for. With bodycams, liberal police chiefs in every major city pushing reforms, diversity training, etc, we've wound up in an era where white people are more likely to get shot in an encounter with police to a degree vastly disproportionate to violent crime rates. And yet black racial grievance against the police is the narrative, along by debunked agitprop.
Not to mention the full picture of the criminal justice system, where liberal DAs have created utterly insane revolving doors where black offenders walk free after their 87th or 113th arrest and get away with laundry lists of felonies unchecked. Pretty much every mugshot featured on the mplscrimewatch list is someone on their 20th+ crime now.

All those reforms, all those progressive policies, they didn't sate the mobs. The mob saw Frey order the police to stand down and let the 3rd precinct burn, and the mob responded by looting every store and burning them down too. They simply followed the path of least resistance


It's not just unjustified police shootings. It's any level of excessive force. It's any type of abuse of authority.

I find the bold hard to believe. Do you have data to support the claim that it's causal? Bodycams are necessary because they protect everyone and can be used to bolster justice. If a cop did the right thing, they can be exonerated. If the cop did the wrong thing, they can be disciplined appropriately. Either way, we win.

No one is saying this shit is easy. We clearly need MORE prisons to house people but we also need more effective rehabilitation to stop the revolving door you're talking about. Alas, I don't think there's going to be much traction on the issue because it's out of sight out of mind for most voters. That apathy is a substantial contributor to the rot I'm talking about.
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Aug 25 2020 12:41pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 25 2020 02:36pm)
America is... or at least it was moving in the right direction on race relations for much of the 90s and early 00s. And you're confounding the problem of racism with the problem of violent riots and looting. These are two related, but distinct problems. Cities burning is not helping racial justice, period. If anything, it is making matters worse becuase it hardens racial attitudes among whites (and potentially also among hispanics and asians).

If Trump gets reelected, then BLM overreach will be one of the main reasons.




Yep, yep.


/e I know I've said it before. BLM is doing more to hurt the black causes, than to help them.

This post was edited by Ghot on Aug 25 2020 12:43pm
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Aug 25 2020 12:42pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 25 Aug 2020 20:38)
The 90s was the era of tough on crime with very thinly coded racial crime laws.

Relations were not getting better. Again, you're confusing relations getting better with groups not calling out the problem.


The 90s era tough on crime laws were welcomed by numerous and important voices from within the black community, simply because crime had gotten THAT bad.
And yes, relations were getting better, at least during the 00s. It culminated in the election of the first black president, something that would not have been possible in the early 90s, let alone the 80s or 70s.
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Aug 25 2020 12:44pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 25 2020 01:10pm)
, we've wound up in an era where white people are more likely to get shot in an encounter with police to a degree vastly disproportionate to violent crime rates.


When you adjust for encounters and crime rates you've over-normalized.

Black people are disproportionately targeted for encounters which raises the crime rate and encounter rate. Jamal can do exactly the same thing as Gary and will encounter the police ten times more, so hes 10x more likely to be shot even though he was doing the exact same thing.
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Aug 25 2020 12:47pm
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Aug 25 2020 12:49pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 25 2020 11:36am)
America is... or at least it was moving in the right direction on race relations for much of the 90s and early 00s. And you're confounding the problem of racism with the problem of violent riots and looting. These are two related, but distinct problems. Cities burning is not helping racial justice, period. If anything, it is making matters worse becuase it hardens racial attitudes among whites (and potentially also among hispanics and asians).

If Trump gets reelected, then BLM overreach will be one of the main reasons.


No one is making that claim...shit burning is bad for everyone and it needs to stop. However, the issue is that people think the issue is SOLVED when the burning stops.

I agree that BLM overreach would be a contributing factor to a Trump reelection.
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Aug 25 2020 01:12pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 25 2020 01:44pm)
When you adjust for encounters and crime rates you've over-normalized.

Black people are disproportionately targeted for encounters which raises the crime rate and encounter rate. Jamal can do exactly the same thing as Gary and will encounter the police ten times more, so hes 10x more likely to be shot even though he was doing the exact same thing.


Whats "disproportionate targeting"? If police dedicate proportionate resources to high crime areas, they encounter black men more frequently. If Gary lives in a small town where 911 is only called for black bear sightings and heart attacks, but Jamal's inner city is an active drug war zone with more high school homicides than graduates, shouldnt he be 10x more likely to encounter police?

But the real issue there is pretending policing raises the crime rate
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Aug 25 2020 01:14pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 25 2020 02:12pm)
Whats "disproportionate targeting"? If police dedicate proportionate resources to high crime areas, they encounter black men more frequently. If Gary lives in a small town where 911 is only called for black bear sightings and heart attacks, but Jamal's inner city is an active drug war zone with more high school homicides than graduates, shouldnt he be 10x more likely to encounter police?

But the real issue there is pretending policing raises the crime rate


Take two neighborhoods with equal crime rates, now at twice as many police to the second neighborhood. You've just used policing to double the recorded crime rate in a neighborhood with the crime rate being equal
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