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Jun 23 2020 02:51pm
Quote (Ghot @ Jun 23 2020 01:25pm)
Yeah... that's some clever BS, no doubt. Snopes has already been busted for serious left leaning... "decisions" in their fact checking. And read a bunch of politifact articles. They are so left leaning it isn't funny.
Ofc, the media will not have this. If ANY1 still thinks they haven't been bought...well then... I pity them.

This is the party you're defending, right now...

/e And this list isn't even up to date. Schiff and Nadler are at it again. They can't decide IF they want to subpoena Barr, or just let him set up a time that he and the House can agree on.

Here... here's a cup of coffee. Now all you have to do is wake up and smell it.


None of this is relevant to the veracity of the tweet's origins.

Do you accept that you posted a fake tweet with the belief that it was legit?
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Jun 23 2020 02:57pm
Quote (Skinned @ 23 Jun 2020 16:51)
It isn't nice to encourage him...he's embarrassing himself at this point. I'm surprised he didn't mention benghazi.

Funny interning japanese bad but interning Mexicans good. I guess it depends if it's your guy or not.


what?

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/02/15/biden-finally-admits-he-and-obama-put-kids-in-cages-but-only-to-keep-them-safe-n381547

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/live-updates/election-2020/third-democratic-debate-analysis-and-fact-checking/fact-checker-biden-on-immigration-policy/
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Jun 23 2020 02:59pm
Quote (excellence @ Jun 23 2020 04:57pm)


This is the kind of what about ism that cam is so disgusted with. Relevant counterexamples? You're just an enemy of liberty.

Also you sound like "but these other guys are bad too". Ok, cool, good +1.

This post was edited by Skinned on Jun 23 2020 03:01pm
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Jun 23 2020 03:27pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 23 2020 09:23am)
Biden's platform is pretty anti-interventionist, but not in a dumb isolationist/populist way.


Expound on this.
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Jun 23 2020 03:30pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 23 2020 04:08pm)
Question. Why should people refrain from using their freedom of speech, freedom of association, and economic freedom to spend money where they see fit to deplatform people? If they aren't using the government to do so that doesn't seem bad. It seems like the system working as it should. I mean, if I really don't like somebody why shouldn't I refuse to buy their advertisers products, and try to get my friends to do the same? Isn't that the very essence of freedom?


Primarily because of the impact it can / is having on civic and political discourse. An underpinning of American civil society is tolerance of opposing viewpoints. Most people would agree that you should not ostracize a work colleague because they voted for a different candidate, for instance, because political fortune can be fickle and you can quickly find yourself ostracized in turn. Besides, the existence of alternative viewpoints in and of itself promotes a healthier and more robust discourse. It's also important to place this in context of the times. Whereas it might have been possible to move localities in the past to get away from oppressive social dynamics, that's often no longer the case. The internet makes it shockingly easy to find and harass others across vast geographic space. And whereas it might have been difficult for someone with an axe to grind to be taken seriously, it's now incredibly easy to circulate accusations, unfounded or otherwise, to hundreds of thousands of like minded individuals. With no vetting mechanics in place, it's incredibly easy to lobby companies to fire employees for perceived offenses, with no semblance of a fair public trial. The company could resist, but almost certainly won't, because the value of one employee is often insignificant compared with even a small number of protestors.

When talking specifically about Twitter, Facebook, and the like, there is a concern that society is handing censor powers over to a handful of privacy monopolies/oligopolies who have no competitors in their particular spheres, who remain in an excellent position to prevent the emergence of competitors, and who are completely unaccountable and opaque in terms of the exercise of the discretion handed to them. The internet has evolved into a public space and a forum for public discussion. It's not acceptable to allow for privacy companies to abuse monopolistic privileges in order to control public discourse, especially not when they're being given privileged legal immunity in exchange for fostering and promoting the exact opposite.

It's important to also distinguish between "forcing someone to buy trans-porn" (Skinned's argument) and coercive attempts to silence alternative thought that is almost never targeted towards those most outraged. It's one thing for me to say "I dislike MSNBC, and will never watch it." and quite another for me to attempt and coerce other companies through threats and intimidation to force MSNBC off the air. When we've reached the point where advocates for serious police reform are being forced to apologize for "distracting" from efforts to defund the police, a radical proposal than even the mainstream left finds dangerous and absurd, we've gone beyond the pale. When discussing whether or not Twitter should claim that Trump is "threatening" or abusing "identifiable groups" when he promises to enforce the law, we should probably ask first whether Twitter is acting in a sane or appropriate manner, and then second debate whether they have the "right" to do that. It's readily apparent that Twitter's position is both ridiculous and hypocritical in the extreme. If we've reached the point (as it seems) where a large segment of society agrees that illegally and violently occupying public space is "peaceful protest", and enforcement of the law is "violent / illegal action", then we've truly achieved Orwellian double-think, and there's no hope left.
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Jun 23 2020 03:32pm
Quote (Ghot @ Jun 23 2020 03:36pm)
Reading not you forte, eh? :/



/e




Are you talking about the idiot that was a member of The Squad? That AOC, the one you're claiming is... crafty?


Even idiots can be good at something, just look at how good u r at doubling down.
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Jun 23 2020 03:39pm
Quote (Santara @ Jun 23 2020 05:27pm)
Expound on this.


Biden doesn't support the populist/isolationist idea of withdrawing from NATO or other international institutions. He's not going to be pulling out of arms control agreements because of some misguided notion of sovereignty. Germany and South Korea will no longer have to worry about the United States leaving them behind.

Plus, I'm not sure he's willing to withdraw from conflicts for basically nothing in return, as Trump has tried to do in both Syria and Afghanistan. Maybe withdrawing on bad terms is the only way to get out, but at least it'll be done thoughtfully and competently, not at the spur of the moment to appease a dictator.

This post was edited by IceMage on Jun 23 2020 03:44pm
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Jun 23 2020 03:40pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 23 2020 05:30pm)
.

It's important to also distinguish between "forcing someone to buy trans-porn" (Skinned's argument) and coercive attempts to silence alternative thought that is almost never targeted towards those most outraged.


Pretty good summation lol. :thumbsup:

What should American cities do when figuring out how to move away from retributive justice to a more effective justice?

What about restorative justice?

We know that justice is something distributed in society per our values per Aristotle, and we've talked about Socrates v Thrasymachus, Melian Dialog as reality, etc.

One party is very interested in not going back to business as usual. When the social arrangement is your life matters less than others based on lottery of birth then thats hard to swallow. When you're basically one of the aristocrats of earth, a white American or european, its easy to have that belief.
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Jun 23 2020 03:44pm
Quote (Skinned @ 23 Jun 2020 17:40)
Pretty good summation lol. :thumbsup:

What should American cities do when figuring out how to move away from retributive justice to a more effective justice?

What about restorative justice?

write two checks (at least 5 figures) one made out to the IRS and one to your state govt. in the line memo put “restorative justice”. you have the money, so says you

have every pale pasty privileged lefty do this as well and we have the means for restorative justice

This post was edited by excellence on Jun 23 2020 03:45pm
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Jun 23 2020 05:52pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 23 2020 04:29pm)
Am I? Because I haven't seen anybody's free speech actually stopped by cancel culture. Right to speech isn't the same as right to a platform or right to an audience.


Tell someone at your job that black lives matter is a corrupt organization and their message is ineffective

Aka tell the truth and watch yourself get fired

A society that cant tell the truth will collapse

We need to crush these petty taddletales
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