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Apr 30 2020 09:20pm
Quote (Testiclese @ Apr 30 2020 11:16pm)
Theft is the unlawful acquisition, by malicious application, of value.

So a nation inhabits a territory. Would it be fair to say that a nation owns the territory it occupies?


No.

No. and no.
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Apr 30 2020 09:21pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Apr 30 2020 08:20pm)
No.

No. and no.


What is your definition of theft, then? I would think mine is pretty open ended.

If you don't believe a nation inhabits a territory, then what is a nation? Is it simply an esoteric construct? Is it a container that describes a group of people?
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Apr 30 2020 09:21pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Apr 30 2020 10:20pm)
No.

No. and no.


According to google

theft - the action or crime of stealing.

stealing - take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.



So under this definition taxes aren't theft.
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Apr 30 2020 09:22pm
Quote (Brian_D @ Apr 30 2020 05:01pm)
derrr im a libertarian, taxes are theft, derrrrrr


You're a pretty generic lefty derp NPC
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Apr 30 2020 09:24pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 30 2020 10:15pm)
Like I said, whether you can avoid it or not doesn't really factor into whether it's theft. I can avoid being mugged, and I can go out of my way to get robbed.

Just because nobody has taken the option doesn't mean it doesn't exist (actually the Amish don't pay taxes where I live, except sales tax on purchased goods, which falls under the "you knew when you bought it" clause you yourself argued established consent).



Does it matter if it's easy? I'd say not.


so what is theft, define it.

just because I can predict im going to be stolen from doesn't change ive been stolen from.

id say if someone takes 10$ from me and gives me 5$ worth of services ive been stolen from. and that's the govt services package. red tape eats money that the private sector can do more efficiently, that's basic libertarian ideology.

Quote (Testiclese @ Apr 30 2020 10:18pm)
I live in a shitty apartment already. While it isn't the case, it could theoretically be the case that my family lives far away (roommate), or does not have the financial capabilities to take me on as an additional boarder (the people upstairs from me, who are packing like 6 people into 2 rooms), or are dead (the case of my coworker).

If I wanted to find cheaper rent, I'd have to uproot my entire life.


and if i want to find cheaper taxes or no taxes id have to uproot mine. i don't have a choice that doesn't involve moving to Somalia really.

Quote (Testiclese @ Apr 30 2020 10:21pm)
What is your definition of theft, then? I would think mine is pretty open ended.

If you don't believe a nation inhabits a territory, then what is a nation? Is it simply an esoteric construct? Is it a container that describes a group of people?


a nation is control backed by money taken involuntarily from people living in that territory and spent on force to both protect the territory they want and to enforce further taxation in a continuing involuntary manner. even representation via democracy is involuntary on an individual level. i can vote libertarian my whole life, get zero representation, and have 2 parties jostling to increase my taxes to spend on their preferred projects. there's no option for less taxes left, the right just lies about fiscal responsibility.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Apr 30 2020 09:27pm
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Apr 30 2020 09:24pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 30 2020 08:24pm)
and if i want to find cheaper taxes or no taxes id have to uproot mine. i don't have a choice that doesn't involve moving to Somalia really.


So what you're saying is that taxes and rent are analogous?
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Apr 30 2020 09:28pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Libertarian_Party_presidential_primaries#2020

Quote
March 3;

None of the above wins the North Carolina Libertarian presidential primary.[109]
Jacob Hornberger wins the California Libertarian presidential primary.[109]
Vermin Supreme wins the Massachusetts Libertarian presidential primary.[109]


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Apr 30 2020 09:29pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 30 2020 08:28pm)
[URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Libertarian_Party_presidential_primaries#2020]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Libertarian_Party_presidential_primaries#2020[/URL]



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Vermin Supreme is a strong statist candidate.
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Apr 30 2020 09:30pm
Quote (Testiclese @ Apr 30 2020 10:24pm)
So what you're saying is that taxes and rent are analogous?


similar, yes. the same, no.

let's take habitation versus earning income. i can live somewhere free, that's an option. cardboard box or leeching. i cant earn income without paying tax, period. whether end of year income tax or social security tax. therein lies the subtle but unavoidable difference.

anyways, its been fun arguing that taxation is theft even though im pro tax but im done for the night. im going to try and fail to convince my wife 10:29 isn't too late for a roll in the hay then go to sleep while the office plays through our 5th rewatch.
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Apr 30 2020 09:32pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 30 2020 08:30pm)
similar, yes. the same, no.

let's take habitation versus earning income. i can live somewhere free, that's an option. cardboard box or leeching. i cant earn income without paying tax, period. whether end of year income tax or social security tax. therein lies the subtle but unavoidable difference.

anyways, its been fun arguing that taxation is theft even though im pro tax but im done for the night. im going to try and fail to convince my wife 10:29 isn't too late for a roll in the hay then go to sleep while the office plays through our 5th rewatch.


You can definitely earn non-taxed income. Oregon has no sales tax and illegal migrant workers who get paid under the table don't pay income tax.

Good luck with the wife. Next time let's pick a topic we disagree on and we can actually have an enlightening discussion about!
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