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Jul 21 2018 11:36am
Quote (Beowulf @ Jul 21 2018 01:32pm)
Right now we are at Tucker carlson and 2 alleged anonymous sources

I think that justifies my wait and see and then analyze approach to this


They both failed to register as foreign agents :wallbash:
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Jul 21 2018 11:38am
I think Putin is a great leader playing 4D chess
USA + Russia colluding is profitable for both countries
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Jul 21 2018 11:39am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jul 21 2018 10:36am)
They both failed to register as foreign agents :wallbash:


Flipping lesser on greater is common

Flipping dem on repub for equal won't look good

You're going to put more into a Tucker carlson basket than I am and that's fine but I'm waiting to see
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Jul 21 2018 11:43am
Quote (Happypuppy @ 21 Jul 2018 18:38)
I think Putin is a great leader playing 4D chess
USA + Russia colluding is profitable for both countries


Why ?
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Jul 21 2018 11:46am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Jul 21 2018 11:43am)
Why ?



Working together towards a common goal rather than fighting
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Jul 21 2018 11:49am
Quote (Happypuppy @ 21 Jul 2018 18:46)
Working together towards a common goal rather than fighting


Oh yes, sounds cool in my simple mind, look like it was a success with europe, cant wait with russia LOL.

/e you can consider it, but without Trump and without Putin...

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Jul 21 2018 11:50am
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Jul 21 2018 11:56am
Quote (Beowulf @ Jul 21 2018 01:39pm)
Flipping lesser on greater is common

Flipping dem on repub for equal won't look good

You're going to put more into a Tucker carlson basket than I am and that's fine but I'm waiting to see



The supposed “greater” crime is tax avoidance. The investigation isnt about tax evasion its a farce
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Jul 21 2018 12:01pm
this depends what is defined as "collusion". as almost anything is defined as collusion right now.

discussing israel's fate, not collusion.
killing off hillary before the 2016 election, collusion.

since only 1 of those happened and i have not yet seen evidence of any major foul plays between trump and russia.... i'm opting out of collusion being a thing.

in short, it depends what dirt you "might" find. it would have to be a big deal for me to consider it a big deal though.
if it was a big deal, i still doubt anything would happen this term. it would definitely lose him the votes for 2020

i just find it funny that so many think this would be 1-sided though.
i don't think most of you understand how much money was illegally cycled to clinton candidate. it looked legal spending it, but a lot of that money was obtained illegally. including from russian interests.

personally, i would be disheartened and really weigh the situation for 2020 if undeniable proof is found incriminating trump for this instance.
i'd rather see someone admit to it, than lie about it and get caught.

what is considered collusion though should really be weighed.
everyone entering for presidency has their own agenda. this agenda stretches past out borders.
every candidate will have support from other countries. it of course, matters to the world what happens.

in a gray area, i would accept "collusion" as a high possibility, (although not proven) but i would consider it to apply to both sides.
as an example, the pope was highly critical of trump taking office and voiced his favor of hillary.
is this considered collusion since the media was used to promote clinton from outside of the country?
i think not.

if criminal acts are found, we will have to judge it by what happened. not judge it by the word "collusion"
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Jul 21 2018 12:02pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ 21 Jul 2018 18:56)
The supposed “greater” crime is tax avoidance. The investigation isnt about tax evasion its a farce


So you are saying the russian investiguation is a "farce" ? really ?
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Jul 21 2018 12:05pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 20 Jul 2018 21:27)
you know what the problem with hypotheticals is?

I mean, we have proof that Hillary/DNC actually did collude with the Ukraine (manafort ledger), and proof she/they colluded with Russian sources (steele dossier), both with the purpose of influencing the election. Heck the FEC even fined Bernie for colluding with a foreign government and it didn't even make the papers. And here we are two years of wild accusations against Trump later and it looks further than ever that any actual knowing collusion took place. Yet you still want to deal in the hypothetical. You can use hypothetical scenarios to debunk claims and identify the weaknesses of theories, but they're all too spurious when you want to construct one in the absence of evidence. Take the hypothetical case where Putin did have kompromat on Trump and did collude with him. In that scenario, you have to come up with rational explanations for why Putin would never deploy his kompromat even after years of Trump pooping all over Russia. 3 rounds of sanctions, 2 rounds of tomahawks on assad, blowing up 200 russians in battle, sending lethal arms like patriot missiles to ukraine and poland ($200 million more released just today), undermining his energy leverage with LNG shipments and opposing nord stream 2, denouncing him on skripal and election hacking, ejecting diplomats, closing consulates, etc etc etc etc. Such a theory needs to explain how all that can happen and Putin did not use his leverage to stop it. You can't keep rationalizing every action as a false flag gambit, then its nothing but tinfoil nuttery. Also, you must rationalize the theory by figuring out how it all managed to stay secret this long. With every journalist in the western hemisphere digging desperately to try to find collusion, and an intelligence community so leaky that the public gets to know what Trump eats for breakfast, there's no way such a conspiracy could be kept hidden for so long. Same problem as the 9/11 crackpots, Maddox had a good piece on debunking conspiracies back when everyone screaming about it now was in diapers.

It reeks of desperation when the best the anti-Trump conspiracy theorists can hope for at this point is the kind of offense that is either not illegal, or an FEC violation that's normally punished with a slap on the wrist, minor fine and sending kids on their way.
People want to believe in conspiracies. People would rather delegitimize their opposition than address their arguments. Our political discourse is all about impugning motives on a scale never seen before in American politics, not even prior to the civil war when ideologues at least did each other the service of acknowledging the contrasting views as they spat upon one another and beat them with canes.



proud to deliver


What does Hillary Clinton and the DNC's wrongdoing have to with potential Russian interference and Trump?
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