these guys in the hague must have some kickass security measures that a war criminal can obtain poison and smuggle it into the courtroom
or it was kindly provided by his lawyer

either way, good riddance

German conservatives reject 'United States of Europe' ahead of coalition talks

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-politics/german-conservatives-reject-united-states-of-europe-ahead-of-coalition-talks-idUSKBN1E30KH


I think, it's a good idea, for Europe. It would mean that each country would have to spend a bit less for things like defense, if all were under one umbrella.

a defense union definitely makes sense. but united states of europe are a horrible idea and would only be a means to establish permanent and massive financial transfers from the fiscally responsible countries in the north, germany in particular, to the debt-ridden south.

to get a comparison for you americans, imagine each US state was an independent nation right now, and there were talks about founding "united states of america" where the treaty explicitly contains a section saying "the red states will forever have to pay for the blue states". sounds ridiculous? thats exactly what "united states of europe" would entail.

and of course it would open the door for even more influence for lobbyists. its a shitty idea, at least in its current form.

Europe is chock full of old countries. I think some of those, remember the days when they were world powers.
I think creating the United States of Europe would give them back that power that they had.

I don't see any way for the EU to become the world power that so many of the countries want to be. There is still too much bickering between countries, in the EU.

I know there are richer and poorer countries. All together they would be a very large country, that could share those fiscal burdens, as well as defense spending burdens among all the countries of the EU.


I have imagined the 50 US states as individual entities. The only place that takes me is the realization, that we would no longer BE a super power. We would be 50 squabbling miniature countries.
China and Russia are not sitting still. In fact they are moving, slowly, already. China in the South China Sea and Russia in Eastern Europe/Western Russia.

I don't want the world to lose Europe. Our history is there. The EU can't just print money that everyone in the EU uses, unless an EU dollar buys the same amount of stuff, anywhere in the EU.
There would ofc be high rent districts/states and low rent ones, but I think Europe needs to come together, more than they have, to be able to stay being...Europe.

I dunno, with the way the world is moving...I think the EU (whatever they want to call it), needs to be a lot more homogeneous, than they are now, or we will slowly lose those countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/08/main-points-of-agreement-uk-eu-brexit-deal

> Agreed terms on UK nationals living abroad, Northern Ireland border and a settlement fee for leaving
> Moved onto next stage of negotiations, giving us a year to sort out a fair trade deal
> It looks like a hard Brexit has been avoided for now - we've asked to stay in the customs union for an extra 2 years minimum as part of a transition

Overall I'm pretty happy with how its gone. I was expecting a breakdown in negotiations, political chaos and a reversal of brexit. Not that I'm in favour of brexit, but we've approached it in a reasonable way thus far.

thats exactly the issue: if the EU becomes more homogeneous, it means that the standard of living in france/germany/netherlands would move a few steps in the direction of where countries like poland or bulgaria are atm. thats a really tough sell to voters in those countries, dont you think?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 10 2017 06:11am

It's currently happening the other way around. The ex-Soviet countries have improved quite a lot with a relatively small burden for the Western EU countries. What is a problem is the flight of people from the poorer countries towards the richer. Countries like Romania or Bulgaria barely have any young people left since they all trek towards the West for jobs.

actually you should worry for your own land m8

There won't be United States of EU ever. It will be like an Allied Nations or there won't be anything :Y

exactly. things arent going that bad as they are right now. instead of some elitist cosmopolitan dreams of "united states of europe", we should do our best to strengthen the EU countries that are struggling, we should fight against the youth flight from the east to the west. if the european countries are strong, our voices will be heard on the international stage, no matter the political frame, no matter if its "united states of europe" or a "europe of fatherlands".