In the name of equality, something you may value, it would be consistent to allow men to also abandon their child (at least from legal obligation) with the same leisure women are able to considering location and circumstance. Especially in cases where a woman does not work with her partner on decisions concerning contraception options, like abortion.

If it is known and official, that a man will not be taking legal and fiscal responsibility for a child he had no intentions of having in the first place, then both parties can be better informed on their decisions moving forward. It would be a legal abortion, in the sense that a woman aborts to alleviate motherhood responsibilities, a man would be alleviating his fatherhood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law - Could definitely be more widely explored and implemented.

Giving men leverage in aspects previously unexplored in contemporary societies, this would allow women more responsive to our needs rather than their own maternalistic selfishness.

But I clearly stated that this wouldn't be an enough good reason for them not to pay, and never did I say they should have the right to abandon their responsabilities, I just thought the system might have flaws and in my opinion the parental responsibility of the father would be taking care of the child too, not ignoring the fact he has a kid and just hands out money to the mother, also lifebane said the fathers wanted custody but do not get it (system flaw)..I thought you were a decent guy after all but now you make me wonder if you even take the time to read others posts, you're just making out your own thoughts out of what people are saying.

This post was edited by Xhenovos on May 19 2013 11:54am

I can kind of support this.... but still I don't entirely agree.... the act of having sex means that the male and female are willing to live with what MIGHT come out of it....

women need the benefit of the doubt on it because they do invest more in the child.... the best solution to this problem that I see is making adoption a better option... giving the biological parents better visitation rights and financial motives... the one thing I hate is a teen/young girl who gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby out of selfishness thinking "It's best for the child." No, it's not... the child should have both parents who can take care of it so adoption is the least selfish thing she can do.... but they don't do that...

I'm not a fan of a woman living off child support, I think there should be limitations on it (not up to 18 years, not if the mother makes no attempt to better herself etc.)

I just want to even up the leverage to the same level as the woman gets, in terms of reproduction rights and decisions in the relationship. It is obvious women have the upper-hand here, they have the most contraception options available, they get to decide the fate of your child (sometimes against your will) and in rare cases they can also abandon the child if they so choose. Allowing men to share similar roles as women, by allowing similar kinds of leverage, couples would be more responsive to each other and this could further prevent one-sided decisions.

I agree, adoption should always be an option if neither are comfortable aborting and neither wants to commit to raising their child. In the case of adoption, both parties alleviate responsibility for parenthood.

This post was edited by killgoreisleet on May 19 2013 12:03pm

I support that 100%, it should be made more equal... the problem however is that men and women don't view sex in general equally.... in my opinion it should come down to A ) was she on birth control? B ) did he use a condom or some kind of protection? C ) was the concept of pregnancy discussed at all?

If she is on birth control and he didn't use a condom, he was willing and accepting of having a child and she was not.... so she has the upper hand... if he used a condom and she was not on birth control, he was not willing nor wanting so he has the upper hand.... if it was discussed previously did they come to an agreement? If they did and one of them changes their mind, they lose the upper hand... if they did not come to an agreement, then they must reach an agreement... if the man doesn't want the child and the woman wants to keep it but wont consider adoption, the man pays a lower % of child support than given the case of him using a condom etc.... does that make sense? And if no birth control was used I would again give the woman the upper hand because men just want sex, women usually want more out of it than that...

Yes, intentions need to be more well defined (and considered legally), not everyone prefers a condom and is willing to trust a woman with the pill. I think it is important men to first have their own pill to allow better terms in sexual decisions, rather than relying on latex and the trust of your partner not 'forgetting' her part.

Women do want more than just sex and they get it, if it isn't in the form of a child it will be in material wealth, favors, meals, a home or just in general the fruits of male labor. Men need to realize that they are getting the short end of the stick and trading the trade of sex for a 'better life' is really a legal form of prostitution on the part of women. I realize i'm a radical and no one will want to hear this, or accept it. I don't care much about that, I'm here to inform, not to garner social acceptance.

On this discussion I don't think you're much of a radical... most men would agree with you and most women (aside from those trying to use their vaginas as a meal ticket) would likely agree as well....

And don't worry my goal in life is to come up with male birth control but actually in my opinion, a consenting act of sex should require both parties to discuss birth control, and discuss child outcomes... hell just make an app for it!

You're being intentionally evasive.
Why is it okay for the state to force men to perform labor with their bodies providing material needs for the child, but not okay for the state to force mothers to perform labor with their bodies by carrying the child to term?

Very VERY different..... men don't have to go through serious pain and ACTUAL burdens on the body, unless they have a manual labor job which has something to do with them anyways...

There is a very big difference between the mom supporting the fetus, and the father supporting the child.

"All good parents do that for their children. It is the glorious burden of parenthood."


No in all seriousness, jobs are stressful/painful too. Just consider a typical factory job, or as you mention physical laborer.
Heck even desk jobs cause all sorts of physical problems.. pain in the back, neck, wrist, shoulders... 80% of Americans experience chronic pain at some point in their life due to sitting at desks/computers too much (Kelly McGonigal, Ph.D. health psychologist, Standford University).
Oh and don't forget the physical and emotional strain caused by occupational stress in just about any job these days.