dont really care of what you are saying, i stoped arguing with idiots long ago.

Coming from the guy who has this in his profile "i argue with everyone and furthermore i can only say the truth, bad or not you gonna take it."

Get out of that guild, Tolkien is ashamed of your faggotry.

who cares for your opinion anyway

you can be stalker, go watch my profile, represents guys like you, hi n bye

This post was edited by eGc-CrusadeR on May 15 2010 01:35pm

From your propensity to respond, you.



Somad.

This post was edited by bogie160 on May 15 2010 01:37pm

norly

First of all, I did not know that is why you do that. Second of all, I did not "attempt to engage [your] arguments based on the style of using emoticons rather than on their actual merits," but rather, I "engage[d] [your] arguments based on the" belief you were appealing to pathos through the use of emoticons in addition to "engag[ing] [them] on their [lack of] actual merits."



You only thought the Macedonians in Greece speak a Slavic language and are persecuted by the Greeks because you were thinking about the Macedonians of the Republic of Macedonia; had you realized that the two Macedonian groups are separate and live in different countries, you would have also realized your entire argument is pointless.



Tell me, what are these Greek Macedonian names you speak of, if nothing other than Greek names?



Again, your whole argument was based on the identification of the Slavic Macedonians with the Greek Macedonians. The Greek Macedonians are today thoroughly assimilated into modern Greece, considering that they speak Greek and share the same national identity as people from Athens or Thessaloniki. In fact, as you can see in this headline:



The former Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis said, "I myself am a Macedonian, just as another 2.5 million Greeks."

"True Greek" (your scare quotes) culture is exactly what Greece determines it to be, because historically no such unified culture has existed. It is a melange of multiple traditions.

What is true is that Greece has a dispute with the Slavic Macedonians with their naming, but the latter already have their own country, so how can you accuse Greece of "cultural genocide" against any Macedonians? In fact, it would make sense that Greece would be offended that a Slavic people named themselves Macedonians only if a subgroup of the Greeks were themselves already called Macedonians.

This post was edited by Inviction on May 15 2010 02:03pm

Thank you very much, at last, knowledge revealed.

If you are smart enough you will take his statements under concideration, because those statements are the truth.

This post was edited by eGc-CrusadeR on May 15 2010 01:56pm

Question : How do Greeks feel about the Byzantine Empire? Do they identify with it?

Now it's you who are confusing Slavic Macedonians with "Slavophone Grecians," as the government likes to call them, which consider themselves to be "Ethnic Macedonians."

When their ability to lose their culture and even name their children is taken away from them for generations, of course it becomes less common for there to be any problems between them and the Grecian state. That's the entire point of the ethnic genocide in question. They are erasing the culture of Greek Macedonians and overwriting it with the majority culture in their country. Myself and the UN Human Rights Watch agree on this point.

Here's an excellent list of other attacks against them: http://www.maknews.com/html/articles/medichkov/medichkov_report.htm

To be honest, I no longer have the research materials as to what those names would be that they are not allowed to use for their children, but I believe they were somewhat standard slavic names, with perhaps a small amount of tweaking for the region. If you'd like, I can go ahead and post my works cited page for the essay I started this all off with in post #77 so that you can do some more research on it yourself. The most important was a UN Human Rights Watch report published in the early 2000s or late 90s, iirc.

Googled real quick - it was 1994. Here's some of what was said: http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/MacedonianMinorities/HumanRightsWatch.html

What? Slavophone Greeks are just people who live in Greece but speak a Slavic language rather than Greek. Greece being in the southern Balkans, the most common Slavic language would be Macedonian (or Bulgarian, which is mutually intelligible with Macedonian). Then clearly, Slavophone Greeks are just a subset of Slavic Macedonians (as members of the ethnic group, not as citizens of Macedonia), who already have their own sovereign nation-state. Thus I truly do not understand your point.



The Greek Macedonian culture is a Greek culture and is entirely different from the culture of the Slavophones in Greece who also call themselves Macedonians.



Racism is not what we were primarily talking about. We were talking about history, language, and culture. The existence of Greek racism against people who live in Greece and who speak the Slavic language Macedonian is deplorable but does not change the fact that the the Greek region of Macedonia, the Ancient Macedonians (the people of Alexander), and modern Greek Macedonians are Greek in language, culture, and national identity. Alexander was Macedonian and Greek in the same way that Napoleon was Corsican and French or that Bismarck was Prussian and German.

I do not see what you mean by "ethnic genocide." People are not being killed en masse, and Greece is not denying Macedonian sovereignty or the distinct culture of its northern neighbor. Greece just has enormous tension between the Slavic Macedonians who reside in Greece and the Greek Macedonians and Greeks in general. Yet this is expected of any primarily monoethnic sovereign nation-state to insure its self-determination and culturo-linguistic unity. Even in the United States, which is a paradigm of the multiethnic society, the government would not allow Chinese or Japanese people to write their names in their original form, that is, Chinese characters, or for Slavophones to write their names in the Cyrillic alphabet. You can hardly call this an example of an American campaign against the Sinitic and Slavic writing systems. Greece has these problems because it is primarily one ethnic group, Greek, with many subgroups, but also has a minority of Slavophones, unlike countries like South Korea, which is almost 100% Korean. So consider this: if the Republic of Macedonia had a minority of Grecophones from the Greek region of Macedonia, do you not think they would be discriminated against because they claim the name Macedonian yet do not speak Macedonian?

This post was edited by Inviction on May 15 2010 04:27pm