Quote (MadMan87 @ Jan 28 2025 07:13pm)

I don’t agree with the pardons. Not because I don’t agree with the rioters but because it sets a bad precedent for future rioters.

Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 28 2025 06:22pm)

That bridge was crossed a long time ago. I disagree with the handful of pardons for violent behavior because I don't like rewarding violent crime. The trespassers have suffered long enough.

Quote (IceMage @ 28 Jan 2025 14:58)

Trump supported the people who committed violence on January 6th...

Quote (IceMage @ 28 Jan 2025 15:58)

When I discuss things I don't think about what other people think, and whether my idea will be popular. The truth is not determined by popular vote.

So maybe that's where we're different? I describe things as they are and assign blame as it should be assigned, and you consider what the majority of voters think before you say something?

Quote (MadMan87 @ Jan 28 2025 04:13pm)

I don’t agree with the pardons. Not because I don’t agree with the rioters but because it sets a bad precedent for future rioters.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2025 04:39pm)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but ^IceMage is totally right on Ashli Babbitt. I never understood why she got so much sympathy and was turned into a martyr by the MAGA faithful. She acted like a dumbass and a menace and deserved to be blasted down in that moment. On pretty much everything else, I have to disagree. Specifically these parts:


And Democrats supported the people who committed wanton violence and property destruction during the Floyd protests throughouth the summer of 2020. They were the first ones to tacitly support violence out of a cynical political calculus that year. They supported the BLM riots because they agreed with the underlying cause, and because they thought it would propel them to the White House. When Trump did the exact same thing with the Jan 6 protesters out of the exact same reasons, the wider public clearly didn't see it as this unprecedented, norm-shattering, unforgivable transgression that Democrats and NeverTrumpers think it was.

Dito with Biden pardoning his fuckup son after years of insisting he wouldn't do it and months of Democratic campaigning on how clean the hands of Biden/Harris were compared to the unique corruption of Trump. This of course paved the way for Trump to get away with doing the wrong but easy thing with regard to the Jan 6 protesters, namely pardoning/commuting all of them, instead of distinguishing more clearly between the trespassers and those who genuinely committed violence.




You're harping on and on about principles, but miss the forest for the trees. So let's hypothetically say all of your opinions and assessments of Trump and his supporters are correct. He's an evil man and a fascist, he brings out the worst in people, he's an acute threat to norms, decency, institutions and democracy. And it has turned out that a majority of the American voters are on his side although you and your tribe have pointed all of this out on countless occasions. Nobody can say that they weren't warned, that they didn't know what kind of man Donald Trump is. Yet a majority of voters still supported him, which implies that the majority are either ignoramuses or themselves morally bankrupt villains. Fine. Cool. And now what?

Those are clearly the things you believe in, but what follows from it? How shall Trump and his movement be stopped? What are the root causes for his rise, other than people being evil for the sake of being evil? And now that a lot of the damage has been done, how can it at least be mitigated? The "he's literally Hitler"-stuff clearly isn't stopping him, so why keep repeating it ad infinitum?

In reality, you aren't so much "holding Trump accountable" or "pointing out the gravity of the situation", you're mostly engaging in self-assurance by screaming your viewpoint into the ether in the most unproductive and impotent fashion possible.

Quote (El1te @ 29 Jan 2025 01:46)

If you believe Ashli Babbitt deserved summary execution, do you also believe everyone else who participated in the riot deserved summary execution? How do you square the circle otherwise?

In a similar fashion, does every single person who parcitipated in the "summer of love" violent riots deserve summary execution?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2025 04:39pm)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but ^IceMage is totally right on Ashli Babbitt. I never understood why she got so much sympathy and was turned into a martyr by the MAGA faithful. She acted like a dumbass and a menace and deserved to be blasted down in that moment. On pretty much everything else, I have to disagree. Specifically these parts:


And Democrats supported the people who committed wanton violence and property destruction during the Floyd protests throughouth the summer of 2020. They were the first ones to tacitly support violence out of a cynical political calculus that year. They supported the BLM riots because they agreed with the underlying cause, and because they thought it would propel them to the White House. When Trump did the exact same thing with the Jan 6 protesters out of the exact same reasons, the wider public clearly didn't see it as this unprecedented, norm-shattering, unforgivable transgression that Democrats and NeverTrumpers think it was.

Dito with Biden pardoning his fuckup son after years of insisting he wouldn't do it and months of Democratic campaigning on how clean the hands of Biden/Harris were compared to the unique corruption of Trump. This of course paved the way for Trump to get away with doing the wrong but easy thing with regard to the Jan 6 protesters, namely pardoning/commuting all of them, instead of distinguishing more clearly between the trespassers and those who genuinely committed violence.




You're harping on and on about principles, but miss the forest for the trees. So let's hypothetically say all of your opinions and assessments of Trump and his supporters are correct. He's an evil man and a fascist, he brings out the worst in people, he's an acute threat to norms, decency, institutions and democracy. And it has turned out that a majority of the American voters are on his side although you and your tribe have pointed all of this out on countless occasions. Nobody can say that they weren't warned, that they didn't know what kind of man Donald Trump is. Yet a majority of voters still supported him, which implies that the majority are either ignoramuses or themselves morally bankrupt villains. Fine. Cool. And now what?

Those are clearly the things you believe in, but what follows from it? How shall Trump and his movement be stopped? What are the root causes for his rise, other than people being evil for the sake of being evil? And now that a lot of the damage has been done, how can it at least be mitigated? The "he's literally Hitler"-stuff clearly isn't stopping him, so why keep repeating it ad infinitum?

In reality, you aren't so much "holding Trump accountable" or "pointing out the gravity of the situation", you're mostly engaging in self-assurance by screaming your viewpoint into the ether in the most unproductive and impotent fashion possible.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2025 04:59pm)

It wasn't a summary execution, it was a credible-enough case of self-defense during a heated confrontation. The January 6 protesters were creating a chaotic and tense situation, a sizable number of them acted violently. Lawmakers and the security personnel protecting them had justified reason to feel threatened. Nonetheless, most of them kept their nerves and didn't kill anyone. With so much chaos and tension and so many individual confrontations, it is really no surprise that one guy lost his nerves and fired a lethal shot that day. Babbitt and her ilk are the ones who caused this shitty situation to begin with by acting like maniacs, Ashli was the one who ended up paying the price. A classic case of FAFO if you ask me.