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Dec 16 2022 09:49am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Dec 16 2022 09:12am)
What I meant by America nightmare is.

1. Japanese are very innovative. Please note before WW2 and during WW2 the Japanese military is one of the top military in the world.
2. I am not saying Japan will do another Pearl Harbor it is not possible.
3. As a matter of Fact I hope they develop some nuclear weapons around 50 to 100 will be good.

Here is the thing. What do you think will happen if the Japanese do not depend on US " security " anymore.


this is like asking "what do you do when your little brother lifts weights and doesnt need you to beat up his bullies anymore". and the answer is beat up his bullies with him.

japan's trade is too linked to the US for them to depart from close relations.
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Dec 16 2022 09:54am
Quote (thesnipa @ 16 Dec 2022 23:49)
this is like asking "what do you do when your little brother lifts weights and doesnt need you to beat up his bullies anymore". and the answer is beat up his bullies with him.

japan's trade is too linked to the US for them to depart from close relations.


The Japanese doesn't want to be America's " Little Brother "

Yes I agree that Japan's trade is too linked to USA.

But also this below

Does Japan trade more with the US or China?
China
China is now Japan's biggest trading partner, with the total value of trade having grown by about 113 times since 1972 to ¥38.4 trillion last year, according to data released by the Finance Ministry.26 Sept 2022

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/09/26/business/japan-china-50-years-economic-ties/

And they are increasing their trade YOY.

The only problem now is so called "security" .
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Dec 16 2022 09:58am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Dec 16 2022 10:30am)
Japanese Economy almost took over the United States in the late 70s and 80s.
When that happened the US because of the control she has on Japan beat them back to the ground.
They have the capability of matching China in some way or another.

If the internet and social media was thriving back in the 80s and early 90s.
The Japanese would have suffered a much worse fate from the West compared to what the Chinese are facing now.

Most of the Japanese and Koreans that I personally met have very anti American government sentiments when I was there. Anti American government and not Anti American sentiments ( please note the difference).
If Japan have a chance , they will definitely want to rise again. But they are currently emasculated by the American government in certain areas. They know they are being used as a proxy to contain China.

Therefore , I am more than happy that they develop some sort of Nuclear Weapons. If they do, this will be more than enough to deter any Chinese threat ( which don't exactly ) exist at the moment.
And when Japan's security issue is being rectify. There will be no more reason for Okinawa's air base. And they will sit well with their neighbours and settle problems via diplomacy.

And if you don't realized apart from ( Taiwan ) which is not a country at the moment. Everyone in East Asia have a bone to pick with the Japanese.
The Koreans, the Chinese, 90% of South East Asia apart from Malaysia and Thailand.


In order to overtake the US economy with 200 million fewer people, the Japanese would have to achieve levels of otherworldly technological progress that, if achieved, would make them our deserved overlords. The weak follow the strong.

Quote
Japan is currently one of the most pro-American countries in the world, with 67% of Japanese viewing the United States favorably, according to a 2018 Pew survey;[8] and 75% saying they trust the United States as opposed to 7% for China.[9] In a 2019 Pew survey, 63% of people in Japan named the United States their closest ally, far higher than any other country named by Japanese respondents.[10]


Japan is more pro-American than America is pro-Japan. I chalk that up to ethnocentrism. Americans tend to pick one of the three anglosphere nations (nobody cares about New Zealand) when naming America's #1 ally. But in reality, Japan is by far America's most important relationship.

Everyone "having a bone to pick" is what makes Japan such a good ally. It's hard to defect when doing so leaves you isolated and alone.

As the largest regional power, China would like "diplomacy", as in bilateral negotiations, because they're likely to win those negotiations. Japan's most recent defense paper dropped the line on a "strategic partnership" with China because the Japanese recognize that only in alliance with other great powers can they hope to get a fair shake.

For my part, I am perfectly happy to see Japan chart a more independent course. Japan should protect Japanese interests, and those interests are going to run contrary to Chinese designs on the region.
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Dec 16 2022 10:01am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Dec 16 2022 09:54am)
The Japanese doesn't want to be America's " Little Brother "

Yes I agree that Japan's trade is too linked to USA.

But also this below

Does Japan trade more with the US or China?
China
China is now Japan's biggest trading partner, with the total value of trade having grown by about 113 times since 1972 to ¥38.4 trillion last year, according to data released by the Finance Ministry.26 Sept 2022

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/09/26/business/japan-china-50-years-economic-ties/

And they are increasing their trade YOY.

The only problem now is so called "security" .


no little brother ever wants to be the little brother. u go to bed earlier, they get to do things u dont, people always compare you to them, you live in their shadow.

then a bully shows up and you give them a big hug and realize the daily small annoyances dont matter when that shadow comes in handy.
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Dec 16 2022 10:04am
Quote (bogie160 @ 16 Dec 2022 23:58)
In order to overtake the US economy with 200 million fewer people, the Japanese would have to achieve levels of otherworldly technological progress that, if achieved, would make them our deserved overlords. The weak follow the strong.



Japan is more pro-American than America is pro-Japan. I chalk that up to ethnocentrism. Americans tend to pick one of the three anglosphere nations (nobody cares about New Zealand) when naming America's #1 ally. But in reality, Japan is by far America's most important relationship.

Everyone "having a bone to pick" is what makes Japan such a good ally. It's hard to defect when doing so leaves you isolated and alone.

As the largest regional power, China would like "diplomacy", as in bilateral negotiations, because they're likely to win those negotiations. Japan's most recent defense paper dropped the line on a "strategic partnership" with China because the Japanese recognize that only in alliance with other great powers can they hope to get a fair shake.

For my part, I am perfectly happy to see Japan chart a more independent course. Japan should protect Japanese interests, and those interests are going to run contrary to Chinese designs on the region.


Like I said before they are not Anti American. They are Anti American Government.

A lot of us in the East are not Anti American, but we are Anti American Government.
You have no idea how happy the normal Chinese citizens in China were super happy when Trump was elected. They think he is really cool.

The same can be said of China and Japan relationship. The Chinese and Koreans do not like the Japanese for similar reasons and the Japanese do not like the Koreans and Chinese for reasons as well.
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Dec 16 2022 10:08am
Quote (thesnipa @ 17 Dec 2022 00:01)
no little brother ever wants to be the little brother. u go to bed earlier, they get to do things u dont, people always compare you to them, you live in their shadow.

then a bully shows up and you give them a big hug and realize the daily small annoyances dont matter when that shadow comes in handy.


They are and will continue to be the little brother as long as the United States are preventing them from breaking out.

Not small daily annoyance for the people in Okinawa though.

here is s a good read if you are interested.

https://thediplomat.com/2022/05/50-years-after-us-occupation-okinawa-continues-to-resist-military-bases/
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Dec 16 2022 10:14am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Dec 16 2022 10:08am)
They are and will continue to be the little brother as long as the United States are preventing them from breaking out.

Not small daily annoyance for the people in Okinawa though.

here is s a good read if you are interested.

https://thediplomat.com/2022/05/50-years-after-us-occupation-okinawa-continues-to-resist-military-bases/


yes we had a poster years ago that posted about the rapes by soldiers issue there a lot. but i think it will take MANY years for distrust of the USA to surpass distrust of China, if ever.

for all the bad history, nuclear bomb included, they have with the USA there's magnitudes more with China. thousands of years.
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Dec 16 2022 10:22am
Quote (thesnipa @ 17 Dec 2022 00:14)
yes we had a poster years ago that posted about the rapes by soldiers issue there a lot. but i think it will take MANY years for distrust of the USA to surpass distrust of China, if ever.

for all the bad history, nuclear bomb included, they have with the USA there's magnitudes more with China. thousands of years.


Japan will never trust the Chinese nor the Koreans and Vice Versa. But that doesn't mean they will not take a pragmatic approach.
If shit happens in the area and war happens things will be devastating. USA is too far away and too powerful at the moment to suffer from those casualties.

Therefore I have said before , if Japan's military rise again and the security issue is being rectified. It will be a problem for the United States. Because the US will slowly lose her influence in the Area.
Put it this way, the Japanese have a superiority complex and they are not afraid of anyone in the East. They have proven it once and they can prove it again. They are very advanced and they have a very strong sense of culture.

Similar to the India and China situation, at best for now they will just throw stones and beat each other with sticks. A few personnel will get killed in the process but it will not escalate to an all out war. And the Indians hate the Chinese and vice versa very much as well.
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Dec 16 2022 10:28am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Dec 16 2022 10:22am)
Japan will never trust the Chinese nor the Koreans and Vice Versa. But that doesn't mean they will not take a pragmatic approach.
If shit happens in the area and war happens things will be devastating. USA is too far away and too powerful at the moment to suffer from those casualties.

Therefore I have said before , if Japan's military rise again and the security issue is being rectified. It will be a problem for the United States. Because the US will slowly lose her influence in the Area.
Put it this way, the Japanese have a superiority complex and they are not afraid of anyone in the East. They have proven it once and they can prove it again. They are very advanced and they have a very strong sense of culture.

Similar to the India and China situation, at best for now they will just throw stones and beat each other with sticks. A few personnel will get killed in the process but it will not escalate to an all out war. And the Indians hate the Chinese and vice versa very much as well.


whom exactly do you think they'll buy these weapons from to rectify their security issue?
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Dec 16 2022 10:35am
Quote (thesnipa @ 17 Dec 2022 00:28)
whom exactly do you think they'll buy these weapons from to rectify their security issue?


If you know anything about East Asians, they are going to copy some of the stuff and start making their own.
The only issue here is how much is the American Government going to allow the Japanese to re arm and produce their own.

If anyone is going to think that the Japanese do not have the capability of producing advance weapons or nukes they might be a little out of touch.
The Taiwanese had a nuclear bomb program in the 70s and were about to build a working one until the American Government stopped them and took away everything.

Now when you think about this. How do you think the general Japanese public or some of their politicians will feel?
You re arm from the weapons that you buy from the United States to act as the first line of defense in the event of a US-China military conflict .

These are very intricate issue which might also refer to your don't trust China and Trust USA more situation.
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