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Nov 15 2022 05:49pm
Quote (Mondain @ Nov 15 2022 05:46pm)
Everything I've posted is not in hate but in the facts which I have researched.

If a man prefers the company of another man, that's fine.

But nobody can change reality, the reality is you're born with a gender and that's your gender until 6 feet under.


Sex is biological. Gender is a social construct. In India, there are 3 genders.
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Nov 15 2022 05:51pm
Quote (foxnews @ Nov 15 2022 06:49pm)
Sex is biological. Gender is a social construct. In India, there are 3 genders.


India does not have a third gender,. it has transgenders posing as their opposite gender.

I agree with gender being a social construct, Which was built on the Biological facts of science.
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Nov 15 2022 05:56pm
there are only two genders

you cannot change your gender no matter how many surgeries you get or how many pills you swallow

those are the facts and how are absurd micro minorities a discussion in the first place?
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Nov 15 2022 06:01pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Nov 15 2022 06:41pm)
I can understand your perspective in the thought of whether trans-affirming care reinforces certain gender stereotypes. However, I would only find myself agreeing with that conclusion if gender-affirming care was approached from a one-size fits each gender approach, which it doesn't. There is no one way to be trans, and no gender-affirming care journey is going to look exactly the same. People, including transgender people, comprise a spectrum and that some (perhaps even a majority) transgender people follow a so-called "traditional trans narrative" does not invalidate the spectrum we all find ourselves--trans or otherwise. I agree then that "bodily autonomy should be granted to each individual".

And thank you. I hope I feel better soon as well. I have been sick since Friday night and this is probably the worst illness I've had in 10+ years.



Thanks for your response! I’m not set in any opinion and appreciate the extra information and context (especially since I’ve only met a few trans in my life). Could you please elaborate on, “ if gender-affirming care was approached from a one-size fits each gender approach, which it doesn't”. I think I get the gist of what you were saying but it hasn’t coalesced yet.

Ginger garlic tea would be my remedy 😊
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Nov 15 2022 06:13pm
Posting this here because it's fits the best:

Quote
Mormon church comes out in support of same-sex marriage law


https://apnews.com/article/religion-relationships-gay-rights-utah-07847f4b7e3e96d81c10a298a199b860

The report is less than an hour old.
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Nov 15 2022 06:13pm
I want it to be clear I don't hate transgender people.

They are suffering and need compassion to help heal.
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Nov 15 2022 06:21pm
Quote (Mondain @ Nov 15 2022 03:46pm)
Everything I've posted is not in hate but in the facts which I have researched.

If a man prefers the company of another man, that's fine.

But nobody can change reality, the reality is you're born with a gender and that's your gender until 6 feet under.


I think the "mental illness" part of this discussion is much more nuanced than people would want to make space for on PaRD, but I will do my best to assume good faith and reply accordingly:

Important context is needed to acknowledge that our current approach/conceptualization to working with transgender people is relatively new in terms of the historical approach we've taken. Understandably, many people have never been aware of this history because:

1. They themselves are not transgender.
2. They do not have a meaningful, close connection with someone who is transgender that included being privy or otherwise involved in said person's gender care.
3. Both 1 and 2, and they've never had to be educated/informed on it.

I'm not saying that any of this applies to you, but I do think it makes sense why a significant amount of people who have concern about the acceptance and modern treatment of gender expansive people bring up the idea of "mental illness". If someone were to spawn into the world with an idea of what sex/gender or man/woman are, without this historical context, it wouldn't be surprising that people end up having this very common reaction that it seems like it must be a form of mental illness. After all, (to many) one's sex/gender are "fixed", immutable, and why in the world would anyone want to alter their body via social changes, hormones, and/or surgery if not due to the presence of a mental illness? That said, this was actually the prevailing position of the medical/psychological field for the most of human and medical history. Far more of human history has involved trying to "cure" transgender people via the lens of "mental illness" than what we currently see being adopted in the modern era. It really wasn't until ~1920s and Magnus Hirschfeld's field work in Germany that this started to change, and never really caught on in the US until the 1950s. Prior to this, the most-common approaches for "curing transgender people" were either behavioral conditioning approaches via aversion/conversion therapy, or more Freudian psychodynamic therapy--which parallels the majority of the history for "curing" gay people. However, these forms of "treatment" were not efficacious at all, and similar to what we found with gay people, one could not be "cured" of the transgender experience. The fervent view that it must be a mental illness persisted for a long time, and still persists to this day; however, increasing amounts of research and data have shown that these treatments are/were not only NOT efficacious, but they had deleterious outcomes for people as well.

Increasingly, our research shows that the most-medical interpretation of the transgender experience is that there is a developmental incongruence between one's body, socialization, and inner sense of self. Historical efforts weighed heavily on trying to "cure" that inner sense of self to rid someone of the transgender experience/gender dysphoria, but as this has proven to be ineffective, the medical and psychological fields have pivoted to forms of treatment that are actually efficacious, are associated with improvements in subjective well-being, and that have focused on putting the weight on changing one's body/style/appearance/and socialization to align with one's inner sense of self. Now, this is wrestled with within the trans community, because it dances on the line of so-called "transmedicalism", which amounts to medical gatekeeping of whether someone is certifiably trans or not. It's an entirely different discussion to be had, but I think this is a good starting point for replying to idea that being transgender, or having gender dysphoria, is a "mental illness".

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Nov 15 2022 06:26pm
Quote (aidanobsidian @ Nov 15 2022 04:01pm)
Thanks for your response! I’m not set in any opinion and appreciate the extra information and context (especially since I’ve only met a few trans in my life). Could you please elaborate on, “ if gender-affirming care was approached from a one-size fits each gender approach, which it doesn't”. I think I get the gist of what you were saying but it hasn’t coalesced yet.

Ginger garlic tea would be my remedy 😊


And thank you for yours!

To expand, what I mean is that 'gender-affirming care' doesn't look like any one, or multiple, 'steps' for trans women v. trans men. There are some trans women who get facial feminization surgery, and those who don't. There are trans men who take testosterone, and some who don't. With that comes all kind of expressions of gender in terms of clothing, speech, dispositions, etc.

If one were to work with a gender-affirming care specialist, they would not be forced, encouraged, or solicited to do anything specific. There are merely options available to trans people.
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Nov 15 2022 06:29pm
Get well soon! :hug:



It is often said that trans rights are very similar to gay rights, and that conservatives will eventually come around, just like the majority of them did for gay rights throughout the 2010s. The argument is basically that opposition to the demands of the trans rights movement has no valid intellectual basis and is mostly rooted in conservative bigotry and stubbornness. I disagree with this take. Imho, there is a very crucial difference between gay and trans rights: the gays only asked the heterosexual majority society to let them do their thing and not actively discriminate against them. Opening the institution of marriage for gay people was the only demand they made which went beyond asking for mere tolerance.

The trans movement, on the other hand, is asking the majority society to actively affirm their delusions in a lot of ways. They want us to discard laws intended to protect the underaged and allow life-altering operations on minors, even ones which are irreversible or which amount to mutilation. They want to force us to use all sorts of funny pronouns and to disfigure our language. They want girls' sports to be opened to biological males. They want public venues to add extra transgender bathrooms, or to grant biological males access to women's bathrooms. Unlike the gay rights movement, which mostly needed the rest of society to adopt a live and let live attitude toward them, the trans movement needs the rest of society to actively go out of their way and ignore their lying eyes to accomplish its goals.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 15 2022 06:30pm
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Nov 15 2022 06:34pm
Quote (mki @ Nov 15 2022 03:33pm)
There exists an old tradition with in certain versions of Christianity, where the priest of a church will select, typically young boys, for potential senior positions with in the church, and perform a loyalty test to see if they are loyal to the church.

In many cases, this loyalty test involved hazing, molestation, and rape.

The concept was relatively simple: If they stayed quiet, they were loyal, if they did not, the priest would just deny anything they said.

Obviously in ancient times there was no such thing as forensic evidence and the priests were not punished for their behavior until recent times.

This practice was passed down through the generations, but has been phased out of most churches, as it has been deemed to be socially unacceptable.

Do you think that this specific tradition qualifies as "religious freedom" and should be a protected practice under the 1st amendment of the US constitution?


horse shit
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