A state research facility would absolutely be expected to have samples of anthrax, plague, cholera, and tularemia. Those aren't weird things for biological research laboratories to have if they are studying infectious diseases.

Maybe it is a biological research facility with potentially weaponizable research though (although unless you have a very well qualified definition of weaponizable research most research falls in that category). What evidence has actually been presented?

Every single bioweapons laboratory in the world right now in every country is officially labeled a biological research facility. Do you know how many overt bioweapons labs there are in Russia, China, the US or EU? Zero. But when Putin has to scratch out a problem, suddenly some Novichok is on hand and weaponized in a spy gadget. The world powers all retain their bioweapons programs and the only difference is they aren't actively testing it in the jungle like Project 112 and we tap our nose and call the facilities that hold the bioweapons "research laboratories studying infectious diseases". Its just the veneer of plausible deniability, a pretense of international disarmament. Where do you think the bioweapons are at? Secret labyrinthian James Bond villain hideouts carved into active volcanos?

So your argument is

Countries study bioweapons

That was a biological research facility

Therefore it was a bioweapons facility


Pretty weak argument. At best you could say it might have been one, but you haven't given me any reason to think it is one. There are massively more regular research facilities than biological weapon research facilities. I don't trust Russia to be honest about what they're bombing. Why are you so trusting of Russian state claims? lol

Also, I highly doubt we're collaborating with Ukraine to develop something as sensitive and important as biological weapons. I know professors who are black listed from military projects just for being born in Ukraine when it was part of the USSR, and have lost contacts with colleages who aren't allowed to talk to them because of that association. Makes me doubt they were working on anything serious with Ukraine.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Mar 11 2022 02:54am

We already know they were studying weaponizable pathogens with US backing. And contrary to what you think, the vast majority of biological research facilities around the world don't have samples of plague or anthra or tularemia. What bioweapons could be constructed at the Center for Precision Plant Genomics and Horticultural Research Center? A particularly aggressive strain of apple cultivar? Maybe we'd airdrop some weaponized MN55 seeds (aka First Kiss) on Russian fields and watch them recoil in horror as they grow fast ripening, juicy and crisp apples for primary consumption and ill suited for baking. Hell I don't think the Russian economy could survive paying $3 USD an apple at a fair.

This is not a matter of trusting dubious claims, its a matter of distrusting obvious lies. We had something like 48 hours elapse between the US categorically denying any bioweapons materials existed in Ukraine to saying we need to secure the bioweapons in Ukraine. Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe and the single least suited for cutting edge biomedical research, and yet for some reason the US was funding both security and research at facilities with samples of the world's most dangerous and weaponizable pathogens in Ukraine? Gimme a break. Whatever they were up to, it wasn't on the level.

Yep, the vast majority don't have those, but plenty of them do if they are studying infectious diseases.

You haven't given me anything here. What good reason do you have to believe that there was biological weapons research happening in those labs? I am giving you the opportunity to make your strongest case here because I haven't looked into it at all.

There is no distinction, there is no line between "laboratory holding weaponizable dangerous pathogens" and "biological weapons research". That is how all biological weapons research is done in 2022. All chinese, american, european and russian bioweapons are researched in facilities that are frontfacing as secure pathogen research laboratories. If you have vials of anthrax, you have access to bioweapons. If we hide behind the fig leaf of "but its not for the explicit purposes of weaponization", then there are no bioweapons anywhere. Russia can still assassinate people with novichok and storm terrorist hostage takers after pumping in weaponized fentanyl, but bioweapons don't exist.

So here we've got the poorest country in Europe, wracked by civil strife and threat of foreign invasion and at a semi-permanent state of war for a decade, with piss all for medical research, and yet the US was funding security and research at facilities that happen to hold the most dangerous and weaponizable pathogens known to man. Its a bit like finding out the US had a plutonium enriching nuclear reactor set up in Somalia, paying for security and research at their domestic nuclear energy program for totally above-the-board peaceful purposes. And barely a day went by between the US propaganda machine pumping out countless stories of "Bioweapons in Ukraine is a complete hoax and lie by Russia" to "We need to secure Ukraine's bioweapons". And we're still moving that fast. Yesterday even after we admitted that the facilities had weaponizable pathogens, the US still contradicted the Russian claim that Ukraine was being told to destroy the evidence. Now again, just in the time of this back and forth posts, the WHO has come out and said that they had been advising Ukraine to destroy its bioweapons;
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-who-says-it-advised-ukraine-destroy-pathogens-health-labs-prevent-2022-03-11/
https://archive.ph/aTH96

Bruh...

We're pulling shit like this whenever it suits us. Whatever the real reason, oil, influence, strategic importance, whatever. Shit like this not simply made us look bad on the world stage, many countries decided they can't trust us and for a good reason.

Like Russia decided they can't trust us because of NATO expansion which we promised we wouldn't do. My point is very relevant in this debate whether you like it or not.

People that are crying out loud now that it's about Russia are huge hypocrites and the fact that you are trying to deflect my argument by calling it "whataboutism" exactly shows you're one of those hypocrites.

When in doubt, continue to peddle debunked points about "promises."^^^

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is NOT justified.

Nothing was debunked... A promise should be kept.

Secondly Russia doesn't give a shit that the West doesn't like their latest move and who can blame them at this point.

My point is that we better not go to war against a country that possesses 6K nukes. If you feel different head to Ukraine and join their foreign legion instead of crying about it here.

NATO made no "promise," nor was it party to the 2 plus 4 treaty, nor did the 2 plus 4 treaty ban the expansion of NATO. There, you missed it the first time apparently. It's is now debunked.

The whole world can blame them, because they've invaded their neighbor so that they can expand their empire.

wE bEtTeR nOt Go To WaR wItH a CoUnTrY wItH 6k NuKeS - dude, the US has enough nuclear weapons to destroy the entire world all by ourselves. That the Russians have even more is not "extra impressive."