d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Government Provided Childcare
Prev123Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 53,552
Joined: Mar 6 2008
Gold: 1,908.33
Apr 7 2021 12:29pm
Obviously I oppose this massive expansion of government and indoctrination of children.

There are very onerous regulations on childcare that restrict the supply and increase the cost. That is a big reason why people pay babysitters under the table.
I would look at reforming/slashing some of those if you want a solution that isn't total garbage.
Member
Posts: 12,201
Joined: Feb 13 2010
Gold: 14.88
Apr 7 2021 12:43pm
Quote (excellence @ Apr 7 2021 10:03am)
this in a nutshell

more investment is needed into childcare but unfortunately the administrators of this (the govt) will always muck it up


My larger point was an optimal solution is wage growth that allows for a stay at home parent, largely reducing the need for childcare.
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
Apr 7 2021 12:53pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ 7 Apr 2021 11:43)
My larger point was an optimal solution is wage growth that allows for a stay at home parent, largely reducing the need for childcare.


How exactly do you enforce said wage growth? As has been pointed out many MANY times, many small and medium businesses operate on razor thin margins and cannot afford to pay higher wages. Many corporations already pay higher than minimum, and simply don't need to compete.

Part of the problem comes in when the market is labor-rich. When you have more available labor than you have jobs for them to do, there's no incentive for employers to pay more. If you attempt to enforce sudden massive mandatory wage increases, there will be corresponding price increases to cover the difference in the small-medium business world. While the Walmarts and Amazons might be able to take the overhead hit with minor or no price increases at all. AKA, suddenly everything else becomes far more expensive, while nothing has changed at Walmart/Amazon. Then, all the customers go to walmart and amazon because it's cheaper, and all the small businesses go out of business, and now Walmart, Amazon, Target, etc. will raise their prices to come more in line with the purchasing power of the lower income crowd.

In order to gain higher wages for labor, you need a job-rich market, as opposed to a labor-rich market. It's only in many employers competing for the same forms of labor that you gain incentive to pay more. Government policy to enforce higher wage standards seldom provides more jobs, but instead drives out the smaller and mid-sized competition, reducing the number of jobs, and further increasing the labor pool, without any corresponding jobs existing to soak them up. At that point, you end up with more people on public assistance, and an even more increased cry for yet more money because taxes have to be increased on those "higher wages" in order to offset the higher social program costs.

Do you start to see the problem here?
Member
Posts: 33,771
Joined: May 9 2009
Gold: 3.33
Apr 7 2021 12:54pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Apr 7 2021 07:43pm)
My larger point was an optimal solution is wage growth that allows for a stay at home parent, largely reducing the need for childcare.


Having a stay at home parent would massively reduces GDP and GDP per capita. As countries become more developed people desire fewer children, partly due to working but also due to there being a healthcare system which reduces the need for children to care of them later in life. With an ageing population there is no chance we could pay out people's pensions with such a hit to the workforce
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Apr 7 2021 01:13pm
You wrote a bunch of nonsense about single parent households while not mentioning the fact that FAGGOTS are allowed to adopt children. Where the fuck are your priorities? Because we allowed faggot adoption, we now have a generation of kids who want to chop off their dicks because they want to be another gender. Jesus, put out the fucking fire first and have some perspective.
Member
Posts: 12,201
Joined: Feb 13 2010
Gold: 14.88
Apr 7 2021 01:14pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Apr 7 2021 10:53am)
How exactly do you enforce said wage growth? As has been pointed out many MANY times, many small and medium businesses operate on razor thin margins and cannot afford to pay higher wages. Many corporations already pay higher than minimum, and simply don't need to compete.

Part of the problem comes in when the market is labor-rich. When you have more available labor than you have jobs for them to do, there's no incentive for employers to pay more. If you attempt to enforce sudden massive mandatory wage increases, there will be corresponding price increases to cover the difference in the small-medium business world. While the Walmarts and Amazons might be able to take the overhead hit with minor or no price increases at all. AKA, suddenly everything else becomes far more expensive, while nothing has changed at Walmart/Amazon. Then, all the customers go to walmart and amazon because it's cheaper, and all the small businesses go out of business, and now Walmart, Amazon, Target, etc. will raise their prices to come more in line with the purchasing power of the lower income crowd.

In order to gain higher wages for labor, you need a job-rich market, as opposed to a labor-rich market. It's only in many employers competing for the same forms of labor that you gain incentive to pay more. Government policy to enforce higher wage standards seldom provides more jobs, but instead drives out the smaller and mid-sized competition, reducing the number of jobs, and further increasing the labor pool, without any corresponding jobs existing to soak them up. At that point, you end up with more people on public assistance, and an even more increased cry for yet more money because taxes have to be increased on those "higher wages" in order to offset the higher social program costs.

Do you start to see the problem here?


The Amazon/Walmart scenario already happened in an environment where wage growth is stagnant. Wages are only a portion of costs and increasing them, even dramatically, doesn't impact overall costs as much as one would think. I think the largest company that spends a ton on workers is the USPS, nearly 80% of revenue goes to wages and benefits (however this may be due to the forward funding of retirement). Let's say a company spends 50% on wages. If you increase wages by 10%, you don't increase costs by 10%, you increase the 50% by 10%. While you say small businesses have razor thin margins, I don't particularly care for employers who can't provide adequate wages to employees.

We can discuss methods of increasing the value of labor (punishing corporations that ship jobs overseas, employ illegal immigrants labor, exploit visa programs. There are plenty of ways to increase value to labor. Paying higher wages in 1960 relative to 1940 didn't destroy small business. Why would paying higher wages in 2020 relative to 1970 do so. Wages haven't increased in fifty years. That's a fact. Don't let that Chamber of Commerce propaganda fool you.



Quote (dro94 @ Apr 7 2021 10:54am)
Having a stay at home parent would massively reduces GDP and GDP per capita. As countries become more developed people desire fewer children, partly due to working but also due to there being a healthcare system which reduces the need for children to care of them later in life. With an ageing population there is no chance we could pay out people's pensions with such a hit to the workforce


GDP is a metric, not a goal. Most people put off marriage and children because they can't afford it. Young unmarried couples who can't afford homes aren't delaying families because the nation is so wealthy. Just typing that out illustrates how idiotic the notion is. People don't have children because they want someone to care for them late in life, they have children because they want families.

The pension drain is because there's a labor drain, not enough paying in to pay out. More children resolve thus issue, this is why they say we need to import immigrants to increase our wages and contribute to pension funds.
Member
Posts: 12,201
Joined: Feb 13 2010
Gold: 14.88
Apr 7 2021 01:16pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 7 2021 11:13am)
You wrote a bunch of nonsense about single parent households while not mentioning the fact that FAGGOTS are allowed to adopt children. Where the fuck are your priorities? Because we allowed faggot adoption, we now have a generation of kids who want to chop off their dicks because they want to be another gender. Jesus, put out the fucking fire first and have some perspective.


[]
Member
Posts: 20,253
Joined: Apr 30 2008
Gold: 5,267.97
Apr 7 2021 01:23pm
ITT: America once more reinventing the wheel.

You can start hypothetical narratives about how it "promotes" single parenthood, or you can look at other countries that have this system and actually try to derive the pros & cons from there.
Member
Posts: 12,201
Joined: Feb 13 2010
Gold: 14.88
Apr 7 2021 01:29pm
Quote (Leevee @ Apr 7 2021 11:23am)
ITT: America once more reinventing the wheel.

You can start hypothetical narratives about how it "promotes" single parenthood, or you can look at other countries that have this system and actually try to derive the pros & cons from there.


Enlighten me. Which nations have such a program? It may be that it strengthens families, reduces the chance of divorce by alleviating the stresses of providing for childcare. Even if this is so, it is less than optimal. Essential strangers being paid to raise your children for the bulk of a day, reducing the interaction between parent and child.
Member
Posts: 92,996
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Apr 7 2021 01:33pm
Quote (Leevee @ Apr 7 2021 02:23pm)
ITT: America once more reinventing the wheel.

You can start hypothetical narratives about how it "promotes" single parenthood, or you can look at other countries that have this system and actually try to derive the pros & cons from there.


PROs:

has castles and shit

CONs:

not even close to being America, so.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev123Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll