Well, I just made a claim that there's a lot of people who masturbate, and they are negatively affected in their lives. It's not exactly a novel concept. Plenty of forums across the interwebs discussing it.

On homosexuality, it's true I'm not offering any evidence. There's some that can be brought forward, I just don't care to do it. Ultimately my argument is an extension of other moral principles offered by the Catholic church. The Church is one of those institutions that isn't lukewarm about this stuff.

Except there is incredible evidence that masturbation does not negatively impact the lives of the vast majority of people who practice it. There is a small amount of people who have a negative impact, but that's the same with literally everything. Things aren't black and white, there's a spectrum.

There is literally no evidence you can bring up. We went over this for over a decade and all the anti-gay crowd has is cherry picked studies dishonestly performed by Christian organizations. (and before you pick some obscure risk factor to gay sex, those exist with homosexual sex as well)



The point of that image is that it's ridiculous to think an all powerful God cares what we do with our penises. There's an entire cosmos to deal with, and yet he came down to say don't masturbate. Pretty stupid isn't it? Not rape, not something unpleasant. Like, really ponder on that. Things that don't harm people are somehow mortal sins worthy of eternal punishment. I know you won't, because you've been trained not to actually ask certain questions, but I can still try I guess.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Mar 15 2021 03:44pm

Jesus didn't just set the bar at "don't masturbate", he set it at "those who lust in your heart have already committed adultery".

"Negatively impact" means something far different for a Christian than it means for you. There's a different set of moral balances that a Christian faces.

I don't believe God is some being who created the universe and stopped caring. He wants what's best for His creatures, and His moral laws set out what is best for us.

Negatively impact means an unprovable immeasurable "spiritual" negative. Like I said, you didn't reason yourself into your position which is why you and many others try to dress it up in pseudo scientific language

what a silly and completely unscientific take. i think you'll find that those "plenty of websites" you're referring to arrive at their conclusions by either applying arbitrary moral standards, approaching the topic from a biased religious angle, arguing eugenics, or focus on people who engage in excessive behaviour (which makes literally EVERYTHING dangerous, even drinking water). i challenge you to find me a mental or physical health authority supporting your suggestion of the general harm in masturbation, lol.

This post was edited by fender on Mar 15 2021 04:12pm

No, I think the spiritual negative inevitably results in the material negative. It might not be obviously clear how.

For instance, a man could very well develop a relationship outside his marriage for sexual needs, and even if the wife doesn't know about it, it would affect the relationship. The immoral relationship inevitably influences how the man acts towards his wife, whether he realizes it or not. I believe it negatively influences him.

Perhaps you view this relationship as immoral. I suppose you might do so because it hurts his partner. Perhaps if he kept it hidden, it wouldn't hurt his partner, and thus it would be morally acceptable. I think of morality differently. Yes, in a spiritual way, that is relevant outside of the influence on others. But also in a way that considers the ramifications outside of the obvious truths that could be revealed.

Sounds like youre creating data where none exists. You don't have evidence so you have to pretend it exists and then give hypotheticals based on that.

It's faith. Stop making shit up and just admit it.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Mar 15 2021 04:32pm

So you're asking for data that when a guy cheats on his wife and she doesn't know about it, it hurts the relationship?

And I'm supposed to be the uptight puritan here? I don't view this as some strict Christian position.

This post was edited by IceMage on Mar 15 2021 04:35pm

We aren't talking about adultery dude. You're saying that the spiritual negative of being gay or masturbation results in material negative.

You are using an extreme example and trying to make the conversation about that because you have no evidence

The old testament laws on purity and sexuality can be traced to material negatives specific to that place and time.

Social evolution is human evolution.