Quote (bogie160 @ 3 Feb 2021 18:45)

Control of Taiwan makes it nearly impossible to force project in Asia. The United States would struggle to defend Guam, let alone Japan and the Korean peninsula.

Giving the Chinese leverage over critical industries is about as intelligent as allowing them to dominate 5G.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 3 2021 06:40pm)

Um... High Tech isn't even the most important thing we've "depended on". It was steel. Taiwan's steel repurposing led the world for decades. We've already transitioned to Chinese steel, and China is the #1 nation we export coal to, and a good portion of that coal is used in the production of raw steel that's then shipped back to the US to be utilized in manufactured goods.

In nearly every "hi tech" field where we trade with Taiwan, we're also supplied by China themselves, Japan, and even India.

We don't "need" Taiwan. Further, your attempt to indicate that Taiwanese production and trade would simply "stop" by being governed by China is foolish. China is not known for destroying the infrastructure of areas they occupy. Instead, they simply change the management. Our Taiwanese trade would continue as always but for a brief interruption, with a minor difference that it'd simply be an extension of our Chinese trade.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 3 2021 08:40pm)

Um... High Tech isn't even the most important thing we've "depended on". It was steel. Taiwan's steel repurposing led the world for decades. We've already transitioned to Chinese steel, and China is the #1 nation we export coal to, and a good portion of that coal is used in the production of raw steel that's then shipped back to the US to be utilized in manufactured goods.

In nearly every "hi tech" field where we trade with Taiwan, we're also supplied by China themselves, Japan, and even India.

We don't "need" Taiwan. Further, your attempt to indicate that Taiwanese production and trade would simply "stop" by being governed by China is foolish. China is not known for destroying the infrastructure of areas they occupy. Instead, they simply change the management. Our Taiwanese trade would continue as always but for a brief interruption, with a minor difference that it'd simply be an extension of our Chinese trade.

Regardless, these are Sovereign nations. It's not our problem to mediate their disputes. We are not a world government, and we do not have any right to dictate how the world operates, merely our own nation. Again, those who'll be the most impacted by China occupying Taiwan is Japan, Australia, Russia, India, and the EU in general. AKA the majority of the UN should be concerned FAR MORE about the fate of Taiwan than the US. US life will continue as usual no matter what the result of Taiwan is. So if Taiwan matters so much to the rest of the world, maybe it's time the rest of the world gets off their ass and does something about it, rather than screaming "Help! USA, come fight our wars! We hate you and think you suck, but come die for us!"

Quote (thundercock @ 3 Feb 2021 18:54)

We don't "need" a lot of things but they certainly make our life easier. If America wants to abandon Taiwan, that's an acceptable decision. I'm just saying we should start the divestment process right now from a national security perspective. I really don't trust China to manufacture chips from a corporate and military espionage POV, do you?

This is something that we don't need to worry about though. China is too weak and has too much to lose by invading Taiwan. I just think it's imperative that experts explain the strategic importance of certain countries such as Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea. America is far too weak to act alone in this world.

Quote (Santara @ 3 Feb 2021 18:54)

You're way off.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-01-25/the-world-is-dangerously-dependent-on-taiwan-for-semiconductors

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 3 2021 09:51pm)

I fully support all of that. I don't believe the US should still be defending Japan, Guam, or Korea.

We are a North American nation. Our continual presence in Asia to help secure nations who turn around and constantly insult us is pointless.

If Japan, Guam, and South Korea need defended, the European and Asian members of the UN can do it. We've more than fulfilled our obligations in these regards.

Quote (bogie160 @ 3 Feb 2021 19:14)

Guam is sovereign territory.

Granting China control over the entirety of East Asia has enormous implications for the United States with respect to trade and commerce that are difficult to ignore.

The United States did not allow the Soviets to dominate Europe because that is a frightening scenario for the United States (military and economically) as well as for the future of the human race. Allowing China to assert control over Japan and SE Asia would be significantly worse.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Feb 3 2021 06:45pm)

We are currently fighting a shadow war with China.

Giving them victory on any front would be a HUGE mistake.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 3 2021 07:03pm)

What are you even talking about? You don't trust china to manufacture Chips? All chip manufacturers have Fabrication facilities IN CHINA. Literally, the chip in your computer right this second may very well have been manufactured IN CHINA.

I don't think you even know what you're arguing for. If you want to argue that having China as a manufacturing and technological superpower is potentially dangerous, then we can argue that. But that's a completely separate subject to whether we should involve ourselves in a military conflict between Taiwan and China. As the direct impact on the US is just slightly higher than none.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 3 2021 09:03pm)

That article doesn't indicate what you think it does. What it's discussing are very specialized forms of chips used in non-essential "gadgets". What does a parking sensor have to do with US security or infrastructure? Answer: Nothing.

And once again, if China occupies Taiwan, the chip manufacturing from Taiwan would not only continue, it'd spread. China doesn't simply "stop". They would build up 20x the infrastructure to flood the market with such chips, making them cheaper and more accessible. The end result would be to lower the cost of cell phones, smart cars, etc.

:)