I'm currently unconvinced on where the line should fall on fetus vs mother. At the very least in cases where it wasn't voluntary the mother's right totally outweighs the fetus in my mind, but outside of that fringe case I'm not sure.

I'm pretty convinced by the violinist analogy. Even if I choose to hook myself up to the violinist's kidney I have a right to remove myself whenever I want, regardless of the violinist's lack of choice or my previous consent. Bodily autonomy means I get to choose what my body is doing at any time regardless of past circumstances. Obviously if I was getting paid to complete something, I would forfeit a right to that or other considerations on the other end, but in the end I'd have a right to remove myself.

I'm open to being convinced, but nobody's done a particularly good job at it.



Oh, and a house is just a material item. It takes far less to separate somebody from material items than to violate their bodily autonomy. So healthcare and housing aren't really comparable as long as you're not actively enslaving the doctors to do the healthcare.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jan 29 2021 12:45pm

the "bodily autonomy" argument is nonsense, except in the case of rape. if you choose to engage in sex you choose to deal with the consequences, including that of creating a life.

I think all men and women should take mandatory birth control if they are sexually active. Men need to be firing blanks.

the only case where a mother doesnt consent to being pregnant or at the very least the possibility of such when engaging in sex is rape. or perhaps where she's using 1 or more forms of birth control that are supposed to have a 99%+ rate of success. perhaps a case where a man fails to pull out could apply.

i find the disconnect between sex and impregnation to be a serious moral failure of modern mankind. its as if we've given up trying to convince people they should even consider the relationship between sex and reproduction. somehow we've drawn a line between them, likely due to a sexual awakening which seeks to give women a shame free environment to have sex when in the past they've been shamed for slutty behavior and men have been applauded for it. its honestly just proof the patriarchy still steers things, because rather than question the relationship we've just handed women what men have always had.

im still pro choice, but am grossed out be the idea of a woman who's had consensual sex metaphorically telling the child she created it has no right to her body. obviously ive had a child recently, but dont think this is a new stance as a result of that. i will always believe the only guilt free abortion should be one born from rape. all others should be a serious matter for both mother and father, not written off as a matter of the mother's right. "dont want to have a kid dont have sex" doesn't work, on paper or in reality. but that doesnt excuse the overcorrection.

Pro choice, anti-murder abortion.

You don’t want to raise the child, cool, someone else will. Give them up for adoption

I fucked a Catholic girl, outside, on the ground, with a condom, after she told me she doesn't believe in contraception due to her religion.

That about sums up how I feel about the religious view against abortion.

well i guess i gotta be the one to ask, but what's the color of the baby??

/er, what color would the baby be*

This post was edited by Jupe on Jan 29 2021 02:19pm

this ^

This kind of argument is not convincing to me. If you want me to stop from doing something with my body you need a compelling reason. "It's the consequences" is not a compelling reason to stop the consequences from happening. If I put bacon on my face nobody then argues I can't get a face treatment for the acne. What is the reason I can't work to avert consequences from previous action in this case?

This just complicates everything. And society doesn't move because overthinkers never really accomplish much, at least without decision makes.

On the matter of abortion it should be up to the individual and not backed by government. I don't want to give taxes to people who make bad life decisions, and i don't restrain them for doing whatever they want to their bodies either.
Church if it wants keep its stance on anti abortion is fine as long as government doesn't mandate as their right hand because its effectively policy based on your religious beliefs