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#11
Dec 8 2020 03:49pm
For the few i know:
Hopefully chinese know how it is outside and they are still allowed to leave. Many of them are leaving.
A large part of the population is rural, they are much disconnected of this digital social credit.
In 2019, the birth rate fell to 10.4 births per thousand inhabitants, the lowest level in 70 years.
Over that: teir governement is probably lying about demographics (to check)

Their women dont want to reproduce. I will tone down the fear, despite the fact they are reaching the quantic power.
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#12
Dec 8 2020 03:50pm
Quote (Bazi @ Dec 8 2020 12:01pm)
My cousin who lives in Japan was telling me about this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3096090/what-chinas-social-credit-system-and-why-it-controversial

Essentially similar to the black mirror episode where everyone had a social score, and you go through minimal work to determine another’s social score.

Examples of actions that increase your score
-publicly saying something good about government
-visiting your parents or grand parents
-donating to charity

Examples of actions that decrease your score:
-cheating in online video games
-not apologizing or appearing remorseful for a crime committed
-slander including online

This score apparently has high weight and is used in job applications and administering loans.

Any doubts I had that the Chinese will definitively take over as premier super power are now over. Largest population in the world, and one that is now forced to be docile/compliant. Coupled with their AI/tech superiority that they are quickly obtaining. Creepy times. It truthfully doesn’t matter if you have Trump, Biden , Hitler or Hannity as president, I think its safe to say this is a runway train. What are your guys thoughts and should I be learning mandarin and teach it to my child now or later


Honestly doesn't sound like too bad of a system for Americans.

Most Americans are such morons and/or so selfish that the standard justice system doesn't really work as well as it should.

A social score having an impact on both your overall quality of life and your everyday experiences might be what it takes for Americans to become civilized.
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#13
Dec 8 2020 04:02pm
Care to explain why you make the assumption that a restricted population is somehow more beneficial in becoming the world's biggest superpower than a free one?
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#14
Dec 8 2020 04:08pm
Quote (dro94 @ Dec 8 2020 04:02pm)
Care to explain why you make the assumption that a restricted population is somehow more beneficial in becoming the world's biggest superpower than a free one?


Sure I made the assumption because if the country’s primarily
Goals are technology advancement it can accomplish this with minimal pushback. I think one can make an argument against this stating that a free society is important for Novel ideas to be pushed up the chain, but I don’t find this assumption true anymore. I think fear and negative feedback incentive can be just as strong as positive feedback.

Do you disagree?
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#15
Dec 8 2020 04:22pm
Quote (Bazi @ Dec 8 2020 10:08pm)
Sure I made the assumption because if the country’s primarily
Goals are technology advancement it can accomplish this with minimal pushback. I think one can make an argument against this stating that a free society is important for Novel ideas to be pushed up the chain, but I don’t find this assumption true anymore. I think fear and negative feedback incentive can be just as strong as positive feedback.

Do you disagree?


Can you name many authoritarian regimes with high productivity rates? Free countries are the most successful on average - 'free countries' being loosely applied to the West and certain Asian countries like SK, Singapore and Taiwan.

I wouldn't overcomplicate the macro outlook which is that China is a superpower because they have a shit load of people and not down to their technology, which we're still ahead in. Facial recognition and point scoring isn't really groundbreaking tech, we just choose not to use it to the same extent because we live in democracies.

This post was edited by dro94 on Dec 8 2020 04:23pm
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#16
Dec 8 2020 04:28pm
Quote (dro94 @ Dec 8 2020 04:22pm)
Can you name many authoritarian regimes with high productivity rates? Free countries are the most successful on average - 'free countries' being loosely applied to the West and certain Asian countries like SK, Singapore and Taiwan.

I wouldn't overcomplicate the macro outlook which is that China is a superpower because they have a shit load of people and not down to their technology, which we're still ahead in. Facial recognition and point scoring isn't really groundbreaking tech, we just choose not to use it to the same extent because we live in democracies.


How long do you envision the traditional first world countries being superior to China on the tech front though? I feel like technology is like a run away train and the only thing that really will start curbing in sectors like artificial intelligence is regulations. Regulations an authoritarian government will have less likelihood of imposing. Take CRISPR gene modifications for example. Extremely limited in their uses here in the states and in most of Europe. Grants for CRISPR studies are HIGHLY scrutinized. In China, present day, restrictions of the same kind are not present

To answer your first question, I don’t think traditional authoritative governments used to have the edge but I think with impending AI revolution traditional no longer applies

This post was edited by Bazi on Dec 8 2020 04:29pm
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#17
Dec 8 2020 05:05pm
Quote (Bazi @ Dec 8 2020 10:28pm)
How long do you envision the traditional first world countries being superior to China on the tech front though? I feel like technology is like a run away train and the only thing that really will start curbing in sectors like artificial intelligence is regulations. Regulations an authoritarian government will have less likelihood of imposing. Take CRISPR gene modifications for example. Extremely limited in their uses here in the states and in most of Europe. Grants for CRISPR studies are HIGHLY scrutinized. In China, present day, restrictions of the same kind are not present

To answer your first question, I don’t think traditional authoritative governments used to have the edge but I think with impending AI revolution traditional no longer applies


A lot of the technology (particularly in infrastructure and military) the Chinese government invests in is already at a similarly advanced level to Western countries. What I'm getting at is that the Chinese population are mostly poor, they make less than $10,000 USD a year on average and they do not own or have access to the technology we do...and they won't for many, many decades. Most of the country is rural and poor without access to phones or wifi, I don't consider a country advanced if their general population isn't.

This post was edited by dro94 on Dec 8 2020 05:06pm
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#18
Dec 8 2020 05:10pm
Quote (dro94 @ Dec 8 2020 05:05pm)
A lot of the technology (particularly in infrastructure and military) the Chinese government invests in is already at a similarly advanced level to Western countries. What I'm getting at is that the Chinese population are mostly poor, they make less than $10,000 USD a year on average and they do not own or have access to the technology we do...and they won't for many, many decades. Most of the country is rural and poor without access to phones or wifi, I don't consider a country advanced if their general population isn't.


Understood

I guess by these society metrics then yeah China wouldn’t be considered a world leader given the state of the average citizen.

What I was referring to was Chinese military/infrastructure as you put it. Perhaps I’m guilty of placing too much weight on facial identification technology, a concept completely foreign in the US for example. Time will tell in regards to run away AI technology and still stand by the statement that an authoritative government is better off in that climate
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#19
Dec 8 2020 05:16pm
Quote (LuLer @ 8 Dec 2020 22:50)
Honestly doesn't sound like too bad of a system for Americans.

Most Americans are such morons and/or so selfish that the standard justice system doesn't really work as well as it should.

A social score having an impact on both your overall quality of life and your everyday experiences might be what it takes for Americans to become civilized.


Imagine a president like Trump, or someone even worse, making the rules of such a system and determining which things Americans are allowed to say and do without losing their score. The Social Credit System is clearly a totalitarian nightmare.



Regarding the debate about China overtaking the West as the world's leading nation/culture/system: I think our best bet is to impose a hard technological rift between the West and China. On technology, particularly chips and software, the West still has the technological edge and is in possession of the majority of the crucial factories. Disentangling the supply chains and bringing back the production steps which are currently carried out in China will be painful and not trivial, but it can still be done. But the time window is closing, not much time left before it's too late. The fight for technological supremacy will determine the outcome of this "new cold war" against China.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 8 2020 05:18pm
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#20
Dec 8 2020 05:25pm
This idea should stay to those unlimited govs. I fear things like this making its way to america. We have already decided in some states that this is something we do not want. Not only that but technology needs to take a leap before these systems are no longer considered "Racist" as they can not differ one black from another. But the thing is, is that we are losing much much privacy.

Overall, I feel very negatively towards these kinds of ideas.
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