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Nov 19 2020 02:50pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 19 2020 01:53pm)
Bar has been pretty low for years.

You had Obama birthers on the right but that was nowhere near the scope and impact which was the Russia collusion bullshit. People believe what they want because of confirmation bias, so naturally you'll have forces trying to take advantage of that.


Ah yes why would anybody even begin to think Trump was colluding with Russia.

I mean, it's not like his campaign manager passed polling information to the Russians to help with their disinformation campaign, and his NSA appointment was actively investigated for being compromised by Russia, and they took a meeting with Russia agents in Trump Tower, and Trump obstructed the investigation to keep all of these things a secret.

Yep, no reasonable person would ever infer there was Russian collusion from that.

Oh wait..
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Nov 19 2020 05:40pm
Anything to own the libs.
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Nov 19 2020 05:42pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 19 2020 03:50pm)
Ah yes why would anybody even begin to think Trump was colluding with Russia.

I mean, it's not like his campaign manager passed polling information to the Russians to help with their disinformation campaign, and his NSA appointment was actively investigated for being compromised by Russia, and they took a meeting with Russia agents in Trump Tower, and Trump obstructed the investigation to keep all of these things a secret.

Yep, no reasonable person would ever infer there was Russian collusion from that.

Oh wait..


The Trump Tower meeting was with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have evidence of criminal activity by Hillary Clinton. Not at all dissimilar to the Russian sources Hillary Clinton herself mined for (false) material on Donald Trump. To describe Natalia Veselnitskaya as a "Russian agent" is such a stretch as to just be untrue. It would certainly reflect poorly on Clinton and the Democratic party, though, as they were working with Fusian GPS, Natalia's employer, at the time. Was Hillary Clinton colluding with a Russian agent?

Flynn was not compromised by Russia, nor was there any reason to believe he was compromised by Russia. The Biden administration is currently well into the process of doing what Flynn did, and nobody will bat an eye.

These are examples of "knowingly spreading fake news" that we need to guard against.
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Nov 19 2020 07:10pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 19 2020 05:42pm)
The Trump Tower meeting was with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have evidence of criminal activity by Hillary Clinton. Not at all dissimilar to the Russian sources Hillary Clinton herself mined for (false) material on Donald Trump. To describe Natalia Veselnitskaya as a "Russian agent" is such a stretch as to just be untrue. It would certainly reflect poorly on Clinton and the Democratic party, though, as they were working with Fusian GPS, Natalia's employer, at the time. Was Hillary Clinton colluding with a Russian agent?

Flynn was not compromised by Russia, nor was there any reason to believe he was compromised by Russia. The Biden administration is currently well into the process of doing what Flynn did, and nobody will bat an eye.

These are examples of "knowingly spreading fake news" that we need to guard against.


Considering she's since been linked to working directly with the Russian government I'd say it's not a stretch at all to say she's a Russian agent.

Flynn was under investigation as a foreign agent before he ever touched the Trump campaign, and he lied to the FBI in an interview around that question. A judge has ruled that he was acting as an unregistered foreign agent. So in regards to Flynn's actual crimes, no Biden's team hasn't done the exact same thing. So there was good reason to suspect Flynn was acting as a foreign agent, he did break the law in undermining the current administration's foreign policy before Trump assumed office, and Russia had dirt on him because they knew from Pence's public statements that Flynn had lied to Pence (and Pence has admitted that Flynn lied to him, so your usual downplaying of his can just be left out)

The only fake news here is your years long insistence that context be left out when it's inconvenient.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Nov 19 2020 07:13pm
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Nov 19 2020 08:51pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 19 2020 08:10pm)
Considering she's since been linked to working directly with the Russian government I'd say it's not a stretch at all to say she's a Russian agent.

Flynn was under investigation as a foreign agent before he ever touched the Trump campaign, and he lied to the FBI in an interview around that question. A judge has ruled that he was acting as an unregistered foreign agent. So in regards to Flynn's actual crimes, no Biden's team hasn't done the exact same thing. So there was good reason to suspect Flynn was acting as a foreign agent, he did break the law in undermining the current administration's foreign policy before Trump assumed office, and Russia had dirt on him because they knew from Pence's public statements that Flynn had lied to Pence (and Pence has admitted that Flynn lied to him, so your usual downplaying of his can just be left out)

The only fake news here is your years long insistence that context be left out when it's inconvenient.


Flynn did not register as a lobbyist for Turkey. Failing to register as a Turkish lobbyist is emphatically not evidence that one is secretly a Russian pawn.

Flynn did appear to mislead the FBI, as Hillary Clinton herself did in 2016. Being a comparatively less connected man, he obviously made out quite a bit worse. But the Kislyak call provides no evidence of Russian collusion, or even the suggestion of it. Flynn's motive for lying was a poor decision, but one consistent with his instructions, from the Trump administration, to "kill" the story and avoid having routine calls become imagined scandals. If the Trump administration had known what was to come next, I imagine they would have handled it quite a bit differently.

Everyone in Russia is linked to the government in some form or fashion. But if, as you say, she is a Russian agent, and we know (as we do) that she was working for Fusian GPS, it follows that the Hillary campaign was actively colluding with Russian agents in order to procure damning material on Trump. Or we can move beyond the 5th grade narratives that litter the NYT's front-page and acknowledge that Russia, like most countries, is littered with people with individual, independent interests. Natalia's motive for the meeting, after all, was to petition against the Magnitsky Act.

These are all red herring. Whether or not Flynn lied to avoid media spotlights is not evidence of his being a Russian agent. The Trump Tower meeting is not evidence of Russian collusion. Flynn failing to register as a foreign agent of Turkey is not evidence of being complicit in a Russian scheme. You are stringing together a series of irrelevant facts as if that makes the notion that the President of the United States was personally beholden to and colluding with Russia any more ridiculous.

It was a classic conspiracy theory from the get go. Evidence was regularly circular. Small facts were extrapolated into gigantic, far-reaching conclusions. We were always promised the next scoop ("the walls are closing in!"). Was Manafort simply a corrupt man employed by an incompetent and talent starved campaign? Or was this incompetent campaign secretly masterminding the largest and most effective quisling operation the world had ever seen? Occam's razor is never around when you need it.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Nov 19 2020 08:52pm
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Nov 19 2020 09:14pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 19 Nov 2020 18:42)
The Trump Tower meeting was with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have evidence of criminal activity by Hillary Clinton. Not at all dissimilar to the Russian sources Hillary Clinton herself mined for (false) material on Donald Trump. To describe Natalia Veselnitskaya as a "Russian agent" is such a stretch as to just be untrue. It would certainly reflect poorly on Clinton and the Democratic party, though, as they were working with Fusian GPS, Natalia's employer, at the time. Was Hillary Clinton colluding with a Russian agent?

Flynn was not compromised by Russia, nor was there any reason to believe he was compromised by Russia. The Biden administration is currently well into the process of doing what Flynn did, and nobody will bat an eye.

These are examples of "knowingly spreading fake news" that we need to guard against.

that user still thinks ‘russia’ hacked the election in 2016 but now thinks elections are ‘hack-proof’ in 2020
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Nov 19 2020 09:55pm
:o

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Nov 20 2020 12:39am
Quote (MSX98 @ Nov 19 2020 10:38pm)


It's like the scene from the fifth element.

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Nov 20 2020 12:55am
Quote (duffman316 @ Nov 19 2020 07:47am)
I could publish a fake story on twitter about biden sexually assaulting a 12 year old boy and it would probably spread like wildfire 🤔


do it chicken

you wont
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