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Oct 10 2020 10:38pm
Quote (excellence @ Oct 11 2020 12:08am)
tl;dr harris and biden are going to nuke 401ks and eventually nationalize them which will decimate the middle class, but you’re rich so you dont care


Have to have money to put into a 401k to have a 401k. If corporations keep getting money from taxpayers, then burn it on stock buybacks instead of increasing wages, then the gap between wages and inflation will continue to rise making it harder to afford a house, rent, invest in a 401k, retire, etc.
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Oct 10 2020 10:43pm
Quote (AspenSniper @ 11 Oct 2020 00:38)
Have to have money to put into a 401k to have a 401k. If corporations keep getting money from taxpayers, then burn it on stock buybacks instead of increasing wages, then the gap between wages and inflation will continue to rise making it harder to afford a house, rent, invest in a 401k, retire, etc.

no you need to make money to put into a 401k. you can be cash zero each month and still contribute heavily into a retirement plan

corporations should be allowed to fail, think we can both agree there. let the airlines fail; I disagree with Trump here. almost all companies right now are cash poor because they behave irrationally during growth periods. yet households are expected to behave responsibly. just dumb.

the ability to buy a house right now is at a low bar, the only issue is supply since rates are at a historic low
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Oct 11 2020 02:10am
Quote (AspenSniper @ Oct 11 2020 05:38am)
Have to have money to put into a 401k to have a 401k. If corporations keep getting money from taxpayers, then burn it on stock buybacks instead of increasing wages, then the gap between wages and inflation will continue to rise making it harder to afford a house, rent, invest in a 401k, retire, etc.


Wage growth in the US is far higher than inflation so this is factually incorrect. Annualised wage growth c.6% in comparison to 2% inflation is about a 4% real wage growth annually over the last 20 years.

If anything, lower corporate tax rates should raise wages in theory and retained earnings would be higher, increasing investment into the company for new projects.
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Oct 11 2020 03:34am
Quote (dro94 @ Oct 11 2020 07:10pm)
Wage growth in the US is far higher than inflation so this is factually incorrect. Annualised wage growth c.6% in comparison to 2% inflation is about a 4% real wage growth annually over the last 20 years.

If anything, lower corporate tax rates should raise wages in theory and retained earnings would be higher, increasing investment into the company for new projects.


Loooool
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Oct 11 2020 03:54am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Oct 11 2020 10:34am)
Loooool


'in theory'

They pass on a lot of their extra PAT to shareholders and do stock buybacks but there is also the element of more reinvested profits
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Oct 11 2020 05:12am
Quote (dro94 @ Oct 11 2020 08:54pm)
'in theory'

They pass on a lot of their extra PAT to shareholders and do stock buybacks but there is also the element of more reinvested profits


No one outside management will ever see a wage Increase from corporate tax cuts.
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Oct 11 2020 06:36am
Quote (excellence @ Oct 10 2020 11:08pm)
tl;dr harris and biden are going to nuke 401ks and eventually nationalize them which will decimate the middle class, but you’re rich so you dont care


401k already blows depending on how well your employer has it set up in regards to expense ratios and match. The pandemic response further propped up an already over valued stock market too, keeping this boomer retiree economy alive a bit longer.

Hope people have more than a 401k as part of their retirement plans. At least for me, there was a couple years of flat growth. The Trump pump seems artificial, and the pandemic response makes me feel like we have a retiree economy. Current retired and boomers gutting it out hard so my generation and kids can keep hustling forever.

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Oct 11 2020 06:37am
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Oct 11 2020 06:52am
Quote (AspenSniper @ Oct 11 2020 12:00am)
I'll preface, I'm a republican that primarily votes based on who will have the best impact on my wallet. To speak in facts and not political garbage, here's what I've learned that is why I'm going to vote for Biden despite being a Republican purely for economic reasons:

Trump was supposed to "drain the swamp" which is exactly why I did NOT vote for Hillary. I thought Hillary owed everyone favors thus would fill the cabinet with those people and cared far more about her legacy than the people. Turns out, Trump actually is the one who did what I thought Hillary would do. He claimed he would help the everyday person by lowering their taxes. Here's why I can't vote for Trump.

Trump undid 162m (here's 162m if you arent aware of it) - https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/09/26/irs-guidance-on-section-162m-tax-reform/ Ultimately, his corporate tax policy certainly helped executives and boosted the stock market. However, it's artificial growth. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact. When you reduce their corporate taxes, they become more profitable, which causes their stock price to rise. Does that mean companies performed any better? No, of course not, and thus the claim of "Trump grew the economy a ton, just look at the market!" is a false statement. Also, the "plan" was to give this relief to corporations so that they could provide higher wages to employees, increase their workforce, and make it so that companies outsourcing to other countries could hire American workers again. There is overwhelming evidence even from right-leaning organizations like The Heritage Foundation that prove that really did not happen at all. It just put more money in the pockets of companies, allowing executive pay to rise without much qualm because hey the stock price is up, so they hit their performance goals. So what happened to the money? Executives aren't paid THAT much. Most of the money went into stock buy-backs, which is where companies limit the supply of their own company's stock so that the price artificially rises as it signals to the market that their stock is worth buying because hey, why would they buy billions of dollars of their own stock if it wasn't going to rise right? Stock buybacks are dangerous. It's why companies need bailouts in events of economic crisis. Delta Air did a ton of stock buybacks which grew their stock price, but left them totally screwed when Covid hit because instead of having cash on hand to float them through this, they bought a ton of their own company stock, which was at $60/share pre-pandemic to just $32 today. This is when companies start to ask for the government for bailout money. So in order, Trump cut the corporate tax rates, corporations spent it boosting their own stock rather than their own employees or in a rainy day fund, and now many industries are asking for even more bailout money, essentially doubling down on their use of YOUR tax dollars. Trump created this. This is on him.

Now, onto Biden. First, if you think Biden is some far-left democrat, you're just reaching. The left hates Biden because he's about as democratic as Mitt Romney, pretty dead center. Biden has been outspoken that he does NOT support defunding police, believes rioters/protesters breaking the law should go to jail, and plenty of other examples that strongly differ from AOC, Warren, and even Kamala Harris. However, let's get back to taxes/economy/your actual money. Despite what Breitbart and Trump say, Biden's tax plan truly does not increase taxes on anyone making under $417,000/year. Before you roll your eyes, here's an independent view: Increasing income taxes ONLY HURTS everyday people. The rich make their money by investing their own money and by performance based pay tied to the TSR of their own company stock. So raising income taxes only hurts hard working Americans. Raising taxes on corporations and wealth through luxury taxes and inheritance taxes (death taxes) primarily hurts the rich. Capital gains tax is also one that PRIMARILY hurts the rich since that taxes invested money, but yes it will also hurt the 401k's and investment dollars of the average person, but typically not as much as income tax increases. So, when you hear democrats raising taxes on corporations, capital gains, wealth, or luxury taxes (i.e. 2nd or 3rd homes, cars, yachts and other high dollar items) that is NOT coming after the everyday person. I pay about 40% in income tax, and it freaking sucks, I would NOT support a candidate that would make that worse. So when simpletons say "dems just wanna tax us!" they're just factually wrong. They're aiming to find a way not to pay for bs like the green new deal, but the exploding national debt, the national deficit, etc. by taxing those who are NOT making the vast majority of their money from their income, but rather from capital gains/investments.

I care about my money that i work hard to earn. That's why I'm going to vote for Biden.


Corporate tax law needed reform because it was counterproductive and nonsensical, not because anyone thought companies were going to give employees charity. Wage growth is driven by increased competition for labor.

Stock buybacks are not inherently dangerous, certainly no more so than paying out the cash as a dividend.

The Democrat party has zero intention of paying off the national debt, and proposing additional spending would be an exceptionally odd way of doing that. The intention on both sides is to spend and finance until the end of time, your savings will be worthless and you're just going to have to accept that.
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Oct 11 2020 07:54am
Quote (AspenSniper @ Oct 11 2020 12:00am)
I'll preface, I'm a republican that primarily votes based on who will have the best impact on my wallet. To speak in facts and not political garbage, here's what I've learned that is why I'm going to vote for Biden despite being a Republican purely for economic reasons:

Trump was supposed to "drain the swamp" which is exactly why I did NOT vote for Hillary. I thought Hillary owed everyone favors thus would fill the cabinet with those people and cared far more about her legacy than the people. Turns out, Trump actually is the one who did what I thought Hillary would do. He claimed he would help the everyday person by lowering their taxes. Here's why I can't vote for Trump.

Trump undid 162m (here's 162m if you arent aware of it) - https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/09/26/irs-guidance-on-section-162m-tax-reform/ Ultimately, his corporate tax policy certainly helped executives and boosted the stock market. However, it's artificial growth. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact. When you reduce their corporate taxes, they become more profitable, which causes their stock price to rise. Does that mean companies performed any better? No, of course not, and thus the claim of "Trump grew the economy a ton, just look at the market!" is a false statement. Also, the "plan" was to give this relief to corporations so that they could provide higher wages to employees, increase their workforce, and make it so that companies outsourcing to other countries could hire American workers again. There is overwhelming evidence even from right-leaning organizations like The Heritage Foundation that prove that really did not happen at all. It just put more money in the pockets of companies, allowing executive pay to rise without much qualm because hey the stock price is up, so they hit their performance goals. So what happened to the money? Executives aren't paid THAT much. Most of the money went into stock buy-backs, which is where companies limit the supply of their own company's stock so that the price artificially rises as it signals to the market that their stock is worth buying because hey, why would they buy billions of dollars of their own stock if it wasn't going to rise right? Stock buybacks are dangerous. It's why companies need bailouts in events of economic crisis. Delta Air did a ton of stock buybacks which grew their stock price, but left them totally screwed when Covid hit because instead of having cash on hand to float them through this, they bought a ton of their own company stock, which was at $60/share pre-pandemic to just $32 today. This is when companies start to ask for the government for bailout money. So in order, Trump cut the corporate tax rates, corporations spent it boosting their own stock rather than their own employees or in a rainy day fund, and now many industries are asking for even more bailout money, essentially doubling down on their use of YOUR tax dollars. Trump created this. This is on him.

Now, onto Biden. First, if you think Biden is some far-left democrat, you're just reaching. The left hates Biden because he's about as democratic as Mitt Romney, pretty dead center. Biden has been outspoken that he does NOT support defunding police, believes rioters/protesters breaking the law should go to jail, and plenty of other examples that strongly differ from AOC, Warren, and even Kamala Harris. However, let's get back to taxes/economy/your actual money. Despite what Breitbart and Trump say, Biden's tax plan truly does not increase taxes on anyone making under $417,000/year. Before you roll your eyes, here's an independent view: Increasing income taxes ONLY HURTS everyday people. The rich make their money by investing their own money and by performance based pay tied to the TSR of their own company stock. So raising income taxes only hurts hard working Americans. Raising taxes on corporations and wealth through luxury taxes and inheritance taxes (death taxes) primarily hurts the rich. Capital gains tax is also one that PRIMARILY hurts the rich since that taxes invested money, but yes it will also hurt the 401k's and investment dollars of the average person, but typically not as much as income tax increases. So, when you hear democrats raising taxes on corporations, capital gains, wealth, or luxury taxes (i.e. 2nd or 3rd homes, cars, yachts and other high dollar items) that is NOT coming after the everyday person. I pay about 40% in income tax, and it freaking sucks, I would NOT support a candidate that would make that worse. So when simpletons say "dems just wanna tax us!" they're just factually wrong. They're aiming to find a way not to pay for bs like the green new deal, but the exploding national debt, the national deficit, etc. by taxing those who are NOT making the vast majority of their money from their income, but rather from capital gains/investments.

I care about my money that i work hard to earn. That's why I'm going to vote for Biden.


Youre not a republican if you think high corporate tax makes the market better imo.

We had the highest corporate tax in the world beforehand.

Most of Biden’s platform is straight plagiarism so I personally disagree.
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Oct 11 2020 08:13am
Quote (excellence @ Oct 11 2020 12:08am)
tl;dr harris and biden are going to nuke 401ks and eventually nationalize them which will decimate the middle class, but you’re rich so you dont care


Lol paranoid fantasies of the right. Republicans leave the economy on the shitter everytime and you guys are always "not this time!". Reelect Bush again.

/s


Quote (EndlessSky @ Oct 11 2020 09:54am)
Youre not a republican if you think high corporate tax makes the market better imo.

We had the highest corporate tax in the world beforehand.

Most of Biden’s platform is straight plagiarism so I personally disagree.


He is a democrat because he cares about the economy and the Dems are objectively better at economics in every way.

Vote GOP for faith based government.

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 11 2020 08:15am
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