You can mark your calendar, that's how rare it is, and by calendar i mean the Aztec one.

The difference is I post that in most of Duff's one-off threads, and Sky only posts them in threads where it makes his side look bad

I'm right for the right reason, he's right for the wrong reason.

Usually the perp looks like a nut bar

This guy looks semi normal

And the victim probably wouldn't have died if he was younger

Sounds like a bar fight gone wrong

This entire story is kind of stupid. While I agree with endless and thor that it's not really a representative story and should probably be lumped in the general thread, I'd like to point out a few things:

1. Bars have bouncers/security. Staff also have personal agency. If the person in question was being abusive to staff, it's the staff's responsibility to have security see him out. If for some reason there is no security, it's their responsibility to call police.
2. Confronting other people and telling them what to do or what not to do when you have no authority to do so is always a dangerous thing to do. At 80 years old, it seems the dead guy should have known better.
3. Mask mandates only require masks if medically acceptable (so the person with asthma or other respiratory issues are not required) to wear, and only if not practicing acceptable social distancing. Nothing in the article, or any article, indicates the person was not properly social distancing. Therefore, the mask would not necessarily be required.
4. A person violating social distancing requirements to confront others about their usage (or lack thereof) of masks are quite literally in violation of social distancing/mask mandates themselves, and are provoking a response intentionally.

So there are several relatively clear issues here as I see it. But to boil it down, had the older feller not violated social distancing guidelines, he'd still be alive. Had he not attempted to take business security into his own hands, he'd be alive. Had he not repeatedly gone out of his way to be confrontational, he'd be alive. This is one of those cases where my ultimate response is:

Was there a crime committed? Several, near as I can tell. By the guy still alive? Yeah, near as I can tell involuntary manslaughter resulting from pushing the guy out of his way. It's still a crime, and should probably go to trial. The dead guy was violating social distancing mandates during a pandemic, committing gross and repeated harassment, and depending on how close he got to the other feller, quite possibly petty assault. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Absolutely. Had he minded his own fucking business, rather than attempting to dictate to another person who was having no impact on him personally, rather than harassing him and violating his personal space, he'd still be alive. He clearly had a deathwish, and his wish came true. Fuck him, and anyone who acts like him.

Personal responsibility. It's a thing.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Oct 7 2020 02:15pm

Boomers hate the golden generation, they actually went to war and had tribulations..
Everything the boomers pretend to be whilst actually being the most selfish and greedy generation that ever lived.

This is true.

On the flipside, the 80 year old wouldn't have been a part of the Greatest Generation. He'd have been a part of the silent generation. Would have only been like 13 years old when the Korean war finished. Either one is as likely as the other to have served during Vietnam.

In regards to this specific article, it still really boils down to a busybody attempting to inflict control over another person without any authority or right to do so, and getting dead over it. And the worst part is, it seems pretty clear the guy had no intent to kill, was merely trying to shove this SJW shitlord out of his way because he was tired of his harassment.

Collateral information from the bar is that the two were regulars, they didn't like each other, and the mask thing just seemed like an excuse for them to do what they have been wanting to do all along, and unfortunately one man wasn't built for it.

There really isn't any medical reason not to wear a hospital mask. That just isn't true. It is a liberty issue not a medical issue.

What (I believe) is at root of the mask issue, and you will correct me if you think I'm wrong, is the part where the state government can force people to follow medical advice. Wearing a mask is medical advice, and even if someone has asthma or COPD or whatever, their personal doctor will tell them they should wear a mask, as anybody who has asthma or COPD or whatever can hardly afford to get a severe respiratory infection and the discomfort is a lesser evil than requiring intubation etc. I know there were those Rose Garden doctors that Trump had out who didn't actually practice medicine or take care of people contradicting this but those guys aren't real doctors, they play them on TV. The medical advice is clear.

So wearing a mask is medical advice. We have state surgeon generals announcing such. And I don't want to elaborate on it too much, but there is a baseline for how much people are able to reject medical advice. For example where I practice social work I have been sworn in by a probate court judge to be a deputy clerk with the limited power to hold somebody beyond 72 hours in a hospital by completing an affidavit of mental illness and a case history of mental illness, getting any doctor to sign it, and faxing it to a judge to set up a hearing, which will be in a few days, and which I can cancel right before it happens, which is how you would extend a 72 hour hold into 6 days for example (weekends don't count as hold days also because the courts are closed). Through this hearing we can incarcerate you at the hospital, we can get orders to shoot medicine into you against your will, and we can do things like hold you down and strap you to a bed to do these things if you're too disagreeable when we come to deliver the mandated treatment. This happens to people when they are declared "mentally ill people subject to court ruling", which is a term of art, which means those specific words mean something specific within the context of that field.

If you weren't committed to me on a psych unit yet and were on a medical floor they could just tie you down without court order and deliver medications. In a way me being sworn in to file an order to probate is having more rights and checks & balances than other wise.

But that isn't the case with anti-maskers, because as much as I like to jest, they aren't mentally ill adults. The medical value that is getting glossed over in the arguments is people making informed consent can reject medical advice and indeed Act Against Medical Advice. Now doing things AMA has consequences, like your health insurance won't pay for certain things, which they shouldn't, if you're not acting in good faith and you don't want to get better or stay well.

CDC, WHO, Mayo, and Johns Hopkins all disagree on there being "no medical reason to not wear a mask".

There are a great number of respiratory issues that are heavily complicated by masks. Your most common, asthma, is the go-to, since it's so common. But it's only one among many, and thanks to the Americans with Disabilities act, even attempting to force such folks to wear a mask is a crime.

And wearing a mask does not make you notably safer at all. Mask mandates are in place in an attempt to prevent you from making other people sick. Does it matter if you aren't sick? Well no. Because it's all just a question of some people telling other people what to do.

Regarding the specific case? This 80 year old was looking to try to force this 65 year old to do his will. He was looking for a fight, he got it, he died. Good. Fuck him.

Mandating a piece of cloth around your face in certain public areas and limiting numbers in buildings during a pandemic seems to me the quintessential example of legitimate government policy that infringes on individual liberty. Judging by the number of people masked before vs. after the mandate took place in my state, it wasn't a close call.

People are stupid. Even the marginally smarter group that is PaRD includes mask-denialists. Most of them won't do what's right unless forced to. I find the mandated calorie count on meals for restaurants, or the restrictive drink sizes overly paternalistic. Not the common sense, temporary mandates to slow the spread of a deadly pandemic.