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#11
Jun 27 2020 05:52pm
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#12
Jun 27 2020 06:46pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 27 2020 04:52pm)
https://twitter.com/JonahDispatch/status/1277012876985802753

I basically agree with these points.


Sure. Wilson was undoubtedly racist but he was a pretty decent President. He had the right ideas re: WW1 IMO. That's enough to make him a giant among men.
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#13
Jun 27 2020 07:31pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jun 27 2020 01:48pm)
I think Woodrow Wilson's removal is a bit much but I don't think he cares because he's dead. At the end of the day, it seems that Americans aren't capable of balancing the good that someone does with the bad. Michael Jackson, as an artist, was extremely talented. Michael Jackson, as a person, was creepy as fuck and enjoyed looking at children's buttholes. When I'm listening to "Thriller," that doesn't mean I'm endorsing pedophilia.

Living in an echo chamber is extremely unhealthy because you end up with people like Ghot.


Yeah, I understand it is easier to justify separating an artist from the art that they make than it is to defend public figures like Wilson, Roosevelt, etc., but for me it is a really slippery slope. Usually I find that argument to be weak but in this instance it seems pretty solid, for example, they removed a Theodore Roosevelt statue does that mean they will remove him from Mount Rushmore? The very notion seems ultimately futile to me. I wouldn't be mad if they didn't put up any new monuments or namesakes going forward but removing them seems weak.

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Nature is governed by entropy. This is a natural probable outcome of overabundance. As the population has slowly become lower quality we have become unable to protect our freedoms. This has been accelerated by selfish tyrants like Soros.

China will likely be the next great empire


How has the population become lower quality? Compared to what; other cultures or past American cultures? Both?

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Does the removal of statues, names, and iconography that memorializes really abusive people translate to us living in an echo chamber?


I'll freely admit I was pretty melodramatic with this thread.

Ultimately no I don't agree with those actions being a direct translation to creating and living in an echo chamber but I think it is one component involved in steering us towards one. There seems to be acceptable narratives, points of view, etc. you can adopt and unacceptable ones. The gesture in removing those things is a strong symbolic act that seems like it is geared towards endorsing one "correct" view.

On the other hand, I am for removing "under God" from the currency, so I can understand the compulsion the other side has.

Quote (IceMage @ Jun 27 2020 04:52pm)
https://twitter.com/JonahDispatch/status/1277012876985802753

I basically agree with these points.


I don't know how to read that site, I'm too old for twitter, perhaps you can give me the bullet points lol.

This post was edited by Kamahl16 on Jun 27 2020 07:33pm
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#14
Jun 27 2020 07:33pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 27 2020 04:51pm)
Nature is governed by entropy. This is a natural probable outcome of overabundance. As the population has slowly become lower quality we have become unable to protect our freedoms. This has been accelerated by selfish tyrants like Soros.

China will likely be the next great empire.


Nietzsche is right.

Soros isn't the reason your life sucks though.
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#15
Jun 27 2020 07:34pm
Quote (Skinned @ Jun 27 2020 06:33pm)
Nietzsche is right.

Soros isn't the reason your life sucks though.


Right about what?

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#16
Jun 27 2020 07:42pm
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Jun 27 2020 09:34pm)
Right about what?


Culture that enables the medicore stalls out human development and evolution.

Me describing it in as few words as possible. Nietzsche also said that too many words are hiding things.

This post was edited by Skinned on Jun 27 2020 07:42pm
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#17
Jun 27 2020 07:44pm
Quote (Skinned @ Jun 27 2020 06:42pm)
Culture that enables the medicore stalls out human development and evolution.


How does anything mentioned in this thread relate to the "quality" of a culture?

EDIT:

Quote
Me describing it in as few words as possible. Nietzsche also said that too many words are hiding things.


Being concise is nice.

This post was edited by Kamahl16 on Jun 27 2020 07:45pm
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#18
Jun 27 2020 07:46pm
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Jun 27 2020 09:31pm)
I don't know how to read that site, I'm too old for twitter, perhaps you can give me the bullet points lol.


Quote
1. Was the person retrograde on a clear moral principle at the time. Woodrow Wilson was clearly a reactionary on race for his time.
2. Is the renaming/removal being done in a thoughtful, deliberative and lawful way? Hard to find many examples of this right now, given that everybody is responding to a moral panic.
3. Was the statue/institution erected/created in an act of spite rather than commemoration or celebration? (Many confederate statues in th e 60s were put up as a middle finger to the civil rights movement. They should all go, per point 2).
There are other considerations I think are important, but I just don’t think they’re universally applicable. There are a lot of Sui generis cases out there. But I don’t think they should all be settled in a time or near hysteria.


:bouncy:
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#19
Jun 27 2020 07:47pm
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Jun 27 2020 09:44pm)
How does anything mentioned in this thread relate to the "quality" of a culture?


I was responding to his post in which he described overabundance having some detrimental consequences on its society.

Your thread is critical of cancel culture. Criticizing the quality of a culture is criticizing the quality of a culture.

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#20
Jun 27 2020 07:50pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 27 2020 06:46pm)
:bouncy:


Solid points.

My question is what is the end goal? Are we trying to eliminate history or are we trying to lock it in a box somewhere?

So many other questions. Who defines "clear moral principle"? Can we take a utilitarian rout, perhaps? For example, maybe Wilson said nigger a lot but did his policies outweigh his racism/the collateral damage that racism may have for current and future generations?

Quote (Skinned @ Jun 27 2020 06:47pm)
I was responding to his post in which he described overabundance having some detrimental consequences on its society.

Your thread is critical of cancel culture. Criticizing the quality of a culture is criticizing the quality of a culture.


I am being critical of its methods, absolutely, however I am not claiming myself superior to them at all. I think there are solid points that support what they want to do and are doing I just disagree. Usually the best result comes from discourse, which is fine.



This post was edited by Kamahl16 on Jun 27 2020 07:51pm
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