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Jan 28 2020 06:31pm
It's not a bad deal and it recognizes the fact that throwing money at the problem is the first step in de-radicalizing the Palestinians. However, this isn't happening and it's a complete waste of time.
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Jan 28 2020 06:42pm
this has to be the most transparent and disingenuous attempt to 'solve' the palestine question ever. this is so obviously designed to create a "look we totally tried - so if they (predictably and understandably) reject our 'solution', that clearly means THEY are the bad guys" narrative - by the very people who did everything to further legitimise israel's illegal occupations and demonise / marginalise the palestinian people:

- moving the US embassy to jerusalem
- cutting funding for UNWRA, the UN agency in charge of palestinian refugees
- uncritically supporting israel's right wing government
- stopping all US aid to the palestinian authority
- officially recognising the golan heights as israeli territory (inb4 some clueless idiot claims that has nothing to do with palestine because it's not palestinian territory).

why am i not surprised that the usual hacks swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, and are now trying to sell this as a reasonable or even marginally fair approach? how could anybody with the slightest clue about this administration's approach towards the palestinians mistake this for a genuine attempt to find a workable solution? mindblowing...
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Jan 28 2020 07:06pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 28 2020 06:42pm)
this has to be the most transparent and disingenuous attempt to 'solve' the palestine question ever. this is so obviously designed to create a "look we totally tried - so if they (predictably and understandably) reject our 'solution', that clearly means THEY are the bad guys" narrative - by the very people who did everything to further legitimise israel's illegal occupations and demonise / marginalise the palestinian people:


Are you describing the camp david summit?
Here's what "world peace" looks like;



If Trump was only interested in a disingenuous attempt to make it look like he was doing something dramatic and pose for the cameras, this is not at all how he'd go about it. Even the optics are bad as he hosts a one-sided presentation without any Palestinian representation at all. He could have made concessions purely to achieve a photo op with the PA and Israel side by side and then return them to their entrenched conflict without staking out any geopolitical gambits.
Instead he laid out what's the single most comprehensive and workable peace proposal in decades with every aspect of the conflict and sticking points accounted for, besides the vagueness on Palestinian reconciliation.

Being a policy wonk doesn't make headlines, putting out such a detailed proposal is absolutely unproductive towards optics, and especially when it means the US has staked out positions that could cost it politically down the line.
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Jan 28 2020 07:24pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 28 2020 07:42pm)
this has to be the most transparent and disingenuous attempt to 'solve' the palestine question ever. this is so obviously designed to create a "look we totally tried - so if they (predictably and understandably) reject our 'solution', that clearly means THEY are the bad guys" narrative - by the very people who did everything to further legitimise israel's illegal occupations and demonise / marginalise the palestinian people:

- moving the US embassy to jerusalem
- cutting funding for UNWRA, the UN agency in charge of palestinian refugees
- uncritically supporting israel's right wing government
- stopping all US aid to the palestinian authority
- officially recognising the golan heights as israeli territory (inb4 some clueless idiot claims that has nothing to do with palestine because it's not palestinian territory).

why am i not surprised that the usual hacks swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, and are now trying to sell this as a reasonable or even marginally fair approach? how could anybody with the slightest clue about this administration's approach towards the palestinians mistake this for a genuine attempt to find a workable solution? mindblowing...


You were just sermonizing on accepting the reality of the British situation and how the EU should leverage its superior power to dictate punishing terms. What a shameless hypocrite.

The Palestinians aren't in a position to dictate anything. They're being offered a compromise that is demonstrably better than the status quo. If they had some reason to believe that their situation would be better in 10 years, I'd think it justified, but they obviously don't.
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Jan 28 2020 08:55pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 29 Jan 2020 02:24)
You were just sermonizing on accepting the reality of the British situation and how the EU should leverage its superior power to dictate punishing terms. What a shameless hypocrite.

The Palestinians aren't in a position to dictate anything. They're being offered a compromise that is demonstrably better than the status quo. If they had some reason to believe that their situation would be better in 10 years, I'd think it justified, but they obviously don't.


there is no hypocrisy, you're just making a moronic and incredibly flawed analogy, that's all.

the brits are in a weak position because they CHOSE to leave the EU (btw, i've not been cheering for 'punishing terms', i have explained why it's INEVITABLE the EU don't make the deal too sweet for the UK, because they have to deter other countries from leaving and trying to cherry pick their benefits without the commitments and contributions). furthermore, the brits are negotiating on their own behalf - they are a sovereign country and meet the EU negotiators on equal terms. the palestinians, on the other hand, have been illegally occupied for decades, had absolutely NO say in this ridiculous PR stunt, and the way this administration has treated them, clearly illustrates their bad intentions towards palestine - just in case you were too lazy to read and critically think about this 'peace plan'.

you know why the palestinians "aren't in a position to dictate anything"? because they have been kept in an open air prison, murdered, starved, expropriated, tortured, and violated for decades - against international law, and by a military generously funded with billions of US taxpayer dollars (but also other countries, including germany) - while they don't have sufficient access to basic medical supplies, drinking water, and resources necessary to build a nation. how does that compare to the UK's CHOICE to leave the EU because they wanted to get rid of some hard working polish people have 'control over their own borders and laws' (which both they largely had btw)...
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Jan 29 2020 04:36am
This plan is presented as a compromise, but I see fairly little from Israel's side. In essence they demand that Palestine cedes their sovereignty without even getting any influence in return, other than Israel opening ports/roads that should be open in the first place. For a Palestinian state to be able to succeed, they need to be able to govern and secure themselves, and not be dependent on the whims of the Israeli government.

The chance of Palestinian authorities accepting this deal is nil. It seems like this is just a bone thrown to distract from Netanyahu's impeachment.

Two state solution is dead in the water as of now.
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Jan 29 2020 05:13am
But look at the pretty color map Jared spent so much time on!
That's going right up on the Coke fridge.
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Jan 29 2020 08:51am
lmfao, oh the poor warmongers will be pissed that the Trump administration is going around not starting wars. RINOs/(D)s/never-Trumpers/election-deniers etc. (the ones who were mad that WWIII ended with the only confirmed causalties being a couple Iranian terrorist leaders and those innocent people on the Ukraine commercial airplane that Iran shot down) even worse is some nerdy looking fella like Kushner doing the peace negotiating
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Jan 29 2020 08:54am
I'm not super well versed in the politics but what does Israel give up in this plan? From my knowledge of the recent history it looks like this plan basically says "Okay, Israel keeps everything and the fighting stops."
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Jan 29 2020 09:28am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 29 2020 08:54am)
I'm not super well versed in the politics but what does Israel give up in this plan? From my knowledge of the recent history it looks like this plan basically says "Okay, Israel keeps everything and the fighting stops."


The Israeli concessions from the status quo called for are;
Israel recognizes an independent palestine, gives them east jerusalem as a capitol, gives them extra lands in addition to those occupied by Palestinians right now to equal the 1967 border total area, access for muslims to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque and other holy sites inside Israel, choice of citizenship for Arabs inside Jerusalem, an international palestinian refugee resettlement program, a freeze in the construction of settlements/enclaves and demolition of palestinian structures during negotiations and made permanent with a deal, and gives them guaranteed use of the ports at Ashdod and Haifa until their own ports can be constructed, and invests $50 billion in a joint fund with Arab states to develop a port and airport in Gaza, tunnel from Gaza to the West Bank, highways, bridges, rail, hospitals, water treatment plants, manufacturing, tourism and other means of job growth.

The Palestinian concessions from the status quo called for are;
Recognizing Israel's right to exist and ending hostilities against it, disarming Hamas and forming a peaceful government, abandoning anti-Israeli propaganda in education and international court cases against them, ending boycotts and ending the payment of bounties to terrorists.


Under this plan both sides keep everything they have and the fighting stops, with 97% of israelis and 97% of palestinians staying inside their new borders. Then the Israelis build a new nation for the palestinians with massive investments, land givesaways and right of access.
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