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Dec 23 2019 11:22am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 23 2019 10:20am)
The objective is not punishment rather it's to lower the usage rates.

They probably won't be tried, at most be given some ticket but i think it's more geared towards sellers. The business owners who fail to comply will get the stick imo.

I lean libertarian on some things but not sure i'm against this tbh. Smoking is objectively bad. If we were to quantify the health damages of smoking they are into the billions. Even if this law reduces usage rates by 5% resulting so the taxpayers, health insurance companies save hundreds of millions is it really such a bad thing?

I understand the principle libertarian argument here but to me cost-benefit >


The US already has one of the lowest usage rates in the world.
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Dec 23 2019 11:24am
Quote (Santara @ Dec 23 2019 07:04am)
So the federal government decided in the most recent omnibus spending bill that they would institute a nationwide raising of the legal age to consume tobacco and vaping products to 21.

Personally, I am not only opposed, but genuinely curious as to where they think they have the legal authority to enact this. The legal drinking age being 21 is a federal endeavor that came about by the feds threatening to withhold 10% of each state's federal highway funding if those states failed to enact state-by-state drinking ages at 21. This is because such regulations are state's rights, not entrusted to the feds. But here we are watching the feds assume powers they don't have, and most people don't seem to bat an eye.

Legit question: will 18-20 year old people be tried as adults for breaking this law?


One would hope the supreme court would throw any such legislation out on the precedent of said drinking age legislation...
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Dec 23 2019 11:54am
Quote (Testiclese @ Dec 23 2019 11:24am)
One would hope the supreme court would throw any such legislation out on the precedent of said drinking age legislation...


One must have standing to challenge the law, and who has standing? 50 state governments who are probably not inclined to pursue the matter.
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Dec 23 2019 12:36pm
A bill with such power grabs and careless spending definitely has no chance to pass through the Republican Senate or be signed by the Republican President though. No need to worry.
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Dec 23 2019 12:49pm
Vaping kills.
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Dec 23 2019 12:56pm
Quote (IceMage @ 23 Dec 2019 19:49)
Vaping kills.


like cops


/e: smoke cops >

Im not advocating any violence.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Dec 23 2019 12:57pm
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Dec 23 2019 01:14pm
I spy with my little eye...

3 user(s) are reading this topic: Handcuffs, GodSmiter, ThatAlex
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Dec 23 2019 01:20pm
Quote (Santara @ 23 Dec 2019 08:04)
So the federal government decided in the most recent omnibus spending bill that they would institute a nationwide raising of the legal age to consume tobacco and vaping products to 21.

Personally, I am not only opposed, but genuinely curious as to where they think they have the legal authority to enact this. The legal drinking age being 21 is a federal endeavor that came about by the feds threatening to withhold 10% of each state's federal highway funding if those states failed to enact state-by-state drinking ages at 21. This is because such regulations are state's rights, not entrusted to the feds. But here we are watching the feds assume powers they don't have, and most people don't seem to bat an eye.

Legit question: will 18-20 year old people be tried as adults for breaking this law?


You raise good points. Outside of the 18th and 21st Amendments, the US Constitution doesn't address drugs, including nicotine or cigarettes. As such, rules addressing smoking should probably be left to the states under the 10 Amendment.

I am a fan of disincentivizing smoking, but the ways in which that is done or not done should be left up to the states. There is some evidence that waiting until age 21 could decrease the number of people who start smoking (probably something to do with a lot of brain development between ages 18-21), but again, that decision should be left to the states.

On another note, this is a similar reason why I find proposals such as Bernie Sanders' to legalize or decriminalize weed via executive order so egregious. Not only would that be grossly and unnecessarily bypassing the legislative branch, it's also probably not the federal government's role to weigh in on that topic.

Lastly, I do think states should probably increase the cost of cigarettes even more. It would place an even larger tax burden on the poor, but I think that's okay. Cost-benefit wise, less people smoking saves us more money. But again, that should be up to the states.
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Dec 23 2019 02:23pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 23 2019 12:22pm)
The US already has one of the lowest usage rates in the world.


They've plummeted because there has been a steady campaign against smoking which includes regulations.

Quote (ThatAlex @ Dec 23 2019 02:20pm)
You raise good points. Outside of the 18th and 21st Amendments, the US Constitution doesn't address drugs, including nicotine or cigarettes. As such, rules addressing smoking should probably be left to the states under the 10 Amendment.

I am a fan of disincentivizing smoking, but the ways in which that is done or not done should be left up to the states. There is some evidence that waiting until age 21 could decrease the number of people who start smoking (probably something to do with a lot of brain development between ages 18-21), but again, that decision should be left to the states.

On another note, this is a similar reason why I find proposals such as Bernie Sanders' to legalize or decriminalize weed via executive order so egregious. Not only would that be grossly and unnecessarily bypassing the legislative branch, it's also probably not the federal government's role to weigh in on that topic.

Lastly, I do think states should probably increase the cost of cigarettes even more. It would place an even larger tax burden on the poor, but I think that's okay. Cost-benefit wise, less people smoking saves us more money. But again, that should be up to the states.


Proof is in the pudding. I live in New York state, where if you want to smoke name brand smokes it'll cost you $11 dollars a pack. Our smoking rates have plummeted in the last 5-10 years. I remember when i was 21 years old and having to pay like 9 dollars a pack, shit got old real fast. The cost of smokes wasn't the number one reason why i quit but it was certainly something i cared about.
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Dec 23 2019 02:34pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 23 2019 02:23pm)
They've plummeted because there has been a steady campaign against smoking which includes regulations.


A steady campaign of tax increases. That's it.
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