I never said that baptism was needed to enter heaven. I said that baptism cannot get you there.

Wow that's not at all offensive to Muslims, you bigot.

[QUOTE=Voyaging,Mar 11 2012 01:16am]Wow that's not at all offensive to Muslims, you bigot.[/QUOT

Does it bother you when muslims murder Christians in other countries as much as it bothers you that I said "This isn't Islam"? Is what I've said true or false?

Baptism is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's something we do after salvation to publically profess Jesus.

Essentially. It's mostly a symbolic gesture (dying in sin and being raised anew). That's where the "born-again" name comes from. But based on scripture you also receive the gift of the Holy Spirit through baptism (and repentance). So according to how I interpret the scriptures, baptism is essential to salvation. But of course denominations formed over this issue and not everyone agrees.

According to scripture, it's not part of our salvation. That's why paul said "1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
It is the Gosel that saves Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The cool thing about the bible is when you keep it all in context.. it makes more sense. You can't just pick scriptures out to battle other scriptures. If it were not essential, Jesus wouldn't of said it to the apostles during the great commission.



And it also was a commandment during the day of Pentecost -



Not to mention the fact that almost every conversion story in the NT ended with a baptism.. so yeah. Seems pretty essential to me. You can't receive the Holy Spirit with out (according to Act 2:38).. so...

I'm not denying that they baptized people, but it wasn't for salvation. It is an ordinance like communion. So when you list verses where people were baptized, it doesn't mean that that's the gospel. The Gospel saves that's why Paul said that he wasn't sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel and it says that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Why doesn't it include baptism there?

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Mar 10 2012 07:35pm

Baptisms were not essential before Jesus was saved because JESUS himself could save you. That was what we saw on the cross with the thief. Whether it is mentioned in 95% of all scriptures on how to be saved is irrelevant. The scriptures still mention baptism as the way you get the holy spirit. It also mentions baptism in almost every conversion account. If it were not essential, why did they baptize everyone? Why did Jesus command it during the great commission. Whether baptism was mentioned once, or 100 times in relation to salvation makes no difference. It is mentioned, therefore it must be done. Again we cannot do in the bible what the more "popular" choices are.. We have the read the NT in it's entirety and draw from it what we can.




Again, you're refuting the bible, with other parts of the bible. Jesus COMMANDED it and so did Peter during the day of Pentecost. Are you saying those are not relevant? Why doesn't it include it there? Why doesn't it include repentance in areas where it says "confess with your mouth"? Does that mean all you have to do is confess with your mouth and not repent?

This post was edited by Dune1 on Mar 10 2012 07:40pm

Does it bother your when Christians murder Muslims in other countries as much as it bothers you that Islam isn't a faith that forces conversion?