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#11
May 2 2010 11:11pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ May 3 2010 05:08am)
But what if they can't stay in their home country? What if they can't find a job or even a safe place to raise their family? What then?


How is that our national responsibility? If they want entry into our nation, they can assimilate or face deportation.
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#12
May 2 2010 11:11pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ May 3 2010 12:09am)
We have established immigration protocol for those fleeing persecution but even they must assimilate if they desire to be American .


But what makes one an American?
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#13
May 2 2010 11:12pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ May 3 2010 12:11am)
But what makes one an American?


legal citizenship
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#14
May 2 2010 11:13pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ May 3 2010 05:11am)
But what makes one an American?


This is not a legitimate imitation of Socrates, I am disappoint.
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#15
May 2 2010 11:20pm
Quote (bogie160 @ May 3 2010 12:11am)
How is that our national responsibility? If they want entry into our nation, they can assimilate or face deportation.


That's a rather selfish way of looking at it.

So I propose a selfish reason: national security. It's well known that poverty breeds terrorism. So if millions of people are denied the right to move to another country to pull themselves out of poverty, it's far more likely that you'll have thousands more terrorists on your hands. Thousands more terrorists mean thousands more people looking to undermine your state. If people have more opportunities to support themselves and their families, they'll be less likely to turn to terrorism or gang violence or any other form of destabilizing activities that could threaten nations.
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#16
May 2 2010 11:22pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ May 3 2010 12:20am)
That's a rather selfish way of looking at it.

So I propose a selfish reason: national security. It's well known that poverty breeds terrorism. So if millions of people are denied the right to move to another country to pull themselves out of poverty, it's far more likely that you'll have thousands more terrorists on your hands. Thousands more terrorists mean thousands more people looking to undermine your state. If people have more opportunities to support themselves and their families, they'll be less likely to turn to terrorism or gang violence or any other form of destabilizing activities that could threaten nations.


Poppycock !
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#17
May 2 2010 11:25pm
Quote (Ysolol @ May 3 2010 01:04am)
Yet you perpetuate and propagate hatred, why is that? Are you not a patriot?


If he did that he would be a Islamic fundamentalist
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#18
May 2 2010 11:28pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ May 3 2010 12:12am)
legal citizenship


Okay! So if they're willing to become legal citizens, then why make them give up their ways of life to satisfy arbitrary cultural standards?
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#19
May 2 2010 11:28pm
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Nations survive and thrive on common culture and identity.


What is this nonsense about "nations surviving"?

A top down identity will not bring a country's people together, no matter how sincerely you believe it is for the best. A nation can be perfectly heterogeneous and still be stronger and legitimately ( as opposed to propagandized ) patriotic. It is economic and social freedom that makes for the strongest nations. Nothing else.

We can look at the drug war for example. We can see empirically the harm the drug war has caused socially and fiscally. And this comes from trying to impose a 'moral' identity on society. The country is most defintely not better off while we fight the drug war. We can look at current political atmosphere, nothing about gay marriage debates, abortion debates, drug debates, makes the country together. Nothing about it brings people together. It only divides and makes us as a nation weaker. Because to impose one culture, you inevitably have to step on someone elses face.

Waging war to "spread democracy" sure doesn't work out to well either. It's done nothing to strengthen our nation. lol

...

There is absolutely no need to worry about a nation "surviving". If the country provides people with the freedom to live their lives, the people will come to it and defend it. Voluntarily, with no need for social engineering.

Unless you think the point of a nation is to run a fascistic warfare state then.... oh wait.
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#20
May 2 2010 11:55pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ May 3 2010 05:20am)
That's a rather selfish way of looking at it.

So I propose a selfish reason: national security. It's well known that poverty breeds terrorism. So if millions of people are denied the right to move to another country to pull themselves out of poverty, it's far more likely that you'll have thousands more terrorists on your hands. Thousands more terrorists mean thousands more people looking to undermine your state. If people have more opportunities to support themselves and their families, they'll be less likely to turn to terrorism or gang violence or any other form of destabilizing activities that could threaten nations.


Should we submit to terrorism? What cause do they have against a nation which simply "refuses" aid? If we incur anger on other fronts, so be it, but it no way should we be forced to pay out because individuals are salivating over the prospect of plundering our success.

If individuals wish to wage terroristic campaigns against us, so be it. Let's hunt them down for the dogs they are, but the only ones who should be allowed into this state are those who can pass cultural standards.

Tric - You are wrong. Very few nations become strong because of social freedom, I'd challenge you to find relevant historical examples that outweigh the dozens I can think up; and economic strength would be a better word than economic freedom, it is the strength to marshal resources which counts, not something so abstract as freedom.

We have a national identity, and yes, it has and does survive on the death of others. That national identity (your respect for rights, for example) is essential for our survival. The notion that our nation is "strong" because of our freedoms is just as essential. We need them to survive.

I think governments exist as a means to benefit and protect society, the consent of the people can only be withdrawn through blood.
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