This is a short thread and more a question for Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans.

I often hear people say the Republican Party needs to eject the "crazies" from the party and return to sanity. I not only hear this from normies, but political commentators, politicians, and even former leaders of the GOP (McCain, Bush, Romney).

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand this at all. If anything, voters rejected this "sane" Republican Party in 2008 and 2012. But then again, George W. Bush has somehow restored his public image despite overseeing an illegitimate war and leaving middle class Americans impoverished. I'm ranting, sorry.

In any case, why is the GOP of Bush, McCain, and Romney so preferable to the GOP of Trump?

Get rid of your pro-pedo anime sig/avatar if you want to be taken seriously.

Not a Democrat but....

The GOP is pretty much rotten to the core. The crazies are a matter of aesthetic, not actual policy. Trump did not meaningfully deviate from how any other Republican would govern. They are interested in power, and that's pretty much it. Democracy is no longer a concern for them.

The fact that the establishment actively blocked Obama's nominee and they flat out said if Hillary had won they would have blocked for four more years is testament to that.

The longer they go, establishment or crazies, the less interested in Democracy they will become and the worse off we will all be.

You can enjoy your Roe v Wade victory for now, but in the long term they are anti-democratic and will take the country down an exceedingly dark path that will be good for nobody.

It's important to remember that many of these same commentators considered the Republican party of McCain and Romney to be extreme. McCain was a media favourite in 2000 when he opposed Bush, before he was transformed into the hated far right enemy of 2008.

But Romney was a foil the Democratic party enjoyed. He's wealthy in that corporate, aloof, out of touch way that's easy to run against. He tries to pander to the left on immigration and gender, but he does it in a clumsy, insincere way that invites mockery. And by nature of the coalition he can muster, he hands Democrats a powerful natural advantage in the electoral college.

For their part, the media grifters are upset because they were never on the right to begin with. They want a controlled opposition that advocates for slightly lower taxes while following the Democratic party inexorably to the left with respect to society. Jeb Bush was the realization of that philosophy. Fortunately, most of the voting base wants to win.

No.



I see Trump's business as usual results as a consequence of his ineptitude for political maneuvering. He let Ryan and McConnell run the show, and they actively opposed much of his most popular agenda items (encouraging American manufacturing, tariffs, immigration restriction, reducing military presence).

I don't see how they're anti-democratic. Delaying the Supreme Court pick was just politics and I could see a Democrat controlled Senate doing the same thing. Claims about what they'd do if Hillary won doesn't matter, since she didn't win. Also, Hillary is a warmonger and the fact that anyone loos on her favorably after Libya is absurd.

As for Roe, I don't see how limiting the amount of unborn being murdered takes the nation down a dark path. Most Americans don't support the Democrats radical position on abortion.

(I am an anti-abortion radical however and feel that a pregnancy must be carried to term even if the life of the mother is at stake. The Catholic Church determines my stance on abortion).

However, everything you mentioned applies for the pre-Trump GOP as well. Bush's GOP was anti-abortion and the GOP blocked Obama's pick prior to Trump taking office. So how is that the sane GOP?

This is essentially how I see it. The Left also has this very odd ability to define the national dialogue and perception of politics. I can't tell you how many times I see people saying "Democrats are just Diet Republicans" or "the Republicans are in control".

The leaked Roe decision is the first social item Republicans have potentially advanced on in two decades. Democrats have been winning uncontested in social politics since 2004. LGBT, women's lib, BLM, the causes are amplified, echoed, championed, and made pet projects of government and corporate institutions, yet the left claims they're losing ground. I just don't see it.

There is a great deal of hypocrisy that isn't worth noting. They cheered when the Courts struck down democratically passed Prop 8, legalized gay marriage, and upheld the ACA. Now they cry "anti-democratic" when they get a small dose of what conservative Americans have been tolerating for 20 years.

(Not like conservative Americans were faring better before then either, 30 years ago the government would just murder you and your family for being too far right).

If you don't see how refusing to even hold a vote on a supreme court pick for over a year is undemocratic, then I think you need to get a better understanding of democracy. This wasn't a matter of them just denying Obama's picks. They refused to do the job they were elected to do and refused to negotiate.

The Democrats don't have a radical position on abortion. You are confusing Democrats with liberals. Democrats aren't taking the fight to the legislature on abortion and have actively avoided nominating pro-abortion judges the way Republicans make Roe v Wade a litmus test.

@ the bold, that's what I was saying. There is a difference of aesthetics, but very little difference on substance. The "sane GOP" respects decorum, but does the same stuff that the "crazies" do. There is no real policy dispute. Trump had his entire term to negotiate the Afghanistan pull-out. Only levied ineffective and self-harming tarrifs. Didn't do shit to encourage American manufacturing (the plants he often campaigned at as having saved jobs still moved most of the jobs), etc. etc. Trump was bad at navigating, but let's be honest, his only policy agenda was to make himself look good, not to actually affect change in those areas.

It's all horseshit. The leftist media is both rewriting history and redirecting the narrative to whichever way they think will benefit them.

After 9/11, George W Bush was incredibly popular. His popularity led to hubris of attempting to fortify Republican party's legacy by amplifying all the patriotic and religious zeal within the party's traditionalists. This marked his presidency as one of the most obscene in that regard.

But the Republicans' culture war victory was short-lived by the Great Recession and the post-911 wars that were increasingly becoming clear that muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan will not accept democracy over sharia laws. The wars went from "war against terror" to "senseless wars".

All this led to Dubya's cultural impact to backfire on the Republicans and Americans became anti-Christian and anti-overtly-patriotic as other Westerners. After all, EVERYTHING associated with Bush was viewed as stupidity and catastrophic at the time. Many people lost jobs and homes, and people were furious that they lost everything for what? For Jesus? For patriotism? Fuck them both. Was sort of the trend back then.

But everything is reversed now. It's the Dems who are winning the culture war and have entered into the absurd territory. Even long-time Democrats like Bill Maher are breaking from his party.

I mean... gender reassignment for kids? CRT? trans athletes? These are so absurd that the common folk simply cannot buy into them. You'd have to be a drooling woke vegetable whose only source of information is fake news like CNN or Tumblr to believe in any of that shit. On top that, we have a crumbling US economy from Bidenflation. It's almost like a total repeat from 2008.

Then there's Trump. The sane Republican. The one who is at the height of symbolism as the ultimate opposing force against all the insane wokeism of the left.

When everyone is unbearable furious about the Dems ripping our economy to shreds, all that woke garbage that people have been passively ignoring will be the new taboo that everyone openly despise. We're not there yet. But we're already so close with only a year into Biden's (let's say) "presidency". Never underestimate Brandon's knack of fucking up everything he touches.

This post was edited by player11167 on May 23 2022 08:46am

Yeah, I don't see the Supreme Court pick as a failure of democracy. Making it an issue of the presidential election seems more democratic to be honest, giving the people a chance to have a say in who is nominated. The left was furious when Ginsburg was replaced and Ginsburg allegedly asked to not be replaced until after the 2020 election, was that anti-democratic?

Also, the Democrat party is extreme on abortion. Remember the Ralph Northam controversy (prior to the blackface): "The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother." That's the mainstream Democrat stance on third trimester abortion, that's what they vote allow.

As for your response for the bold, it confirms my suspicion.

The "sane GOP" is just the political opposition that allows the Left to bulldoze right over it. They do nothing to encourage confidence among conservative voters and they are absolutely ineffectual when promoting conservative causes. So when you say you want a "sane GOP" you really just want a more docile opponent.

As for Trump's results, I'm the first to admit he was absolutely ineffective, the point is he reflected a will to do better for the American people, something no one else was doing. It's debatable, the effects he had on manufacturing, the results of tariffs (which tend to be a long game strategy). At least he tried, or even said he'd try.

President Obama said American manufacturing is a lost cause and never coming back. (It's because President Obama and the people who run the world economy don't want American manufacturing to come back, but that's another story).

If you don't have the votes, you don't get your way. That's literally the definition of democracy.

Any reason why Republicans had to vote for Obama's nominee when their voters didn't want them to?