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d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Another Shooting By A Cop In Atlanta > Where Has All The Rational Thought Gone?
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Jun 14 2020 02:04am
cops shot and killed a black guy in atlanta. as a result, the police chief has stepped down, people are calling for the cop to be fired.

BUT

the guy failed a dui test, resisted arrest, managed to grab a cops taser and run off, and turned around to fire it at them as he ran off.

what should the cops have done, let themselves get tased? let the guy run off and escape?

but of course the mayor says she doesnt believe it was justified and called for the cop to be fired. utter nonsense.

i understand people are still riled up over george, but you cant just disregard rational thought.
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Jun 14 2020 02:16am
Reasonable use of force IMO.
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Jun 14 2020 02:23am
Shouldn't these 'trained forces' be able to shoot in nonlethal areas? I have the feeling they always aim straight for the deadly parts

This post was edited by Spinne on Jun 14 2020 02:23am
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Jun 14 2020 02:29am
Quote (Spinne @ Jun 14 2020 01:23am)
Shouldn't these 'trained forces' be able to shoot in nonlethal areas? I have the feeling they always aim straight for the deadly parts


No, if you're using a lethal weapon, you aim for the center of mass always.
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Jun 14 2020 02:32am
Quote (thundercock @ Jun 14 2020 10:29am)
No, if you're using a lethal weapon, you aim for the center of mass always.


Is that usual training in the US? I'm unfamiliar with the procedure over there. here in Germany they get trained to first try to shoot in nonlethal areas if the attacker has weapons like a stun gun or a knife

(If they have a gun they will also aim for deadly parts of course)

This post was edited by Spinne on Jun 14 2020 02:33am
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Jun 14 2020 02:34am
bugger, I had that tab open too long making the thread
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Jun 14 2020 02:51am
Quote (Spinne @ Jun 14 2020 03:32am)
Is that usual training in the US? I'm unfamiliar with the procedure over there. here in Germany they get trained to first try to shoot in nonlethal areas if the attacker has weapons like a stun gun or a knife

(If they have a gun they will also aim for deadly parts of course)


The training is to aim center of mass and fire until the target is down, never to aim for extremities.
Aiming off the center means you're far more likely to miss, which could hit bystanders and fail to neutralize the threat. Its also why they use hollow point bullets, which are far more deadly against unarmored targets but less likely to penetrate and hit bystanders. The training is that any time you're shooting a gun your goal is to kill someone, its a lethal weapon, it doesn't have non-lethal intended uses. If lethal force is justified to stop someone, then you should be trying to down that target immediately, not risking other peoples lives with concern over whether you could just wing him. If the target isn't a threat, then you shouldn't be shooting him at all.

This guy already already attacked officers and grappled with them and punched them, grabbed at their guns, ripped a taser out of their hands and then turned around and fired it at them while running. For people to criticize whether he technically represented a lethal threat at that point 'because its only a taser' is the worst kind of armchair quarterbacking. The police were already in a very violent struggle and the guy just stole a weapon and shot at them, in that split second they don't get to carefully weigh the possible outcomes. They don't get to think about 'well he could taser a cop, and when hes down, try to grab his gun, and then he'd be a lethal threat and they could shoot him' like some on twitter have been saying. Once someone has escalated from physically assaulting officers to stealing weapons to shooting at cops, their violent hostility is abundantly clear and they pose an imminent threat.
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Jun 14 2020 03:00am
Quote (Spinne @ Jun 14 2020 04:32am)
Is that usual training in the US? I'm unfamiliar with the procedure over there. here in Germany they get trained to first try to shoot in nonlethal areas if the attacker has weapons like a stun gun or a knife

(If they have a gun they will also aim for deadly parts of course)




Only a Cyberdyne T-1000 can aim at non-lethal parts and always get a take down.
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Jun 14 2020 03:33am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 14 2020 10:51am)
The training is to aim center of mass and fire until the target is down, never to aim for extremities.
Aiming off the center means you're far more likely to miss, which could hit bystanders and fail to neutralize the threat. Its also why they use hollow point bullets, which are far more deadly against unarmored targets but less likely to penetrate and hit bystanders. The training is that any time you're shooting a gun your goal is to kill someone, its a lethal weapon, it doesn't have non-lethal intended uses. If lethal force is justified to stop someone, then you should be trying to down that target immediately, not risking other peoples lives with concern over whether you could just wing him. If the target isn't a threat, then you shouldn't be shooting him at all.

This guy already already attacked officers and grappled with them and punched them, grabbed at their guns, ripped a taser out of their hands and then turned around and fired it at them while running. For people to criticize whether he technically represented a lethal threat at that point 'because its only a taser' is the worst kind of armchair quarterbacking. The police were already in a very violent struggle and the guy just stole a weapon and shot at them, in that split second they don't get to carefully weigh the possible outcomes. They don't get to think about 'well he could taser a cop, and when hes down, try to grab his gun, and then he'd be a lethal threat and they could shoot him' like some on twitter have been saying. Once someone has escalated from physically assaulting officers to stealing weapons to shooting at cops, their violent hostility is abundantly clear and they pose an imminent threat.


I don't specifically mean this case, i wanted to provocate because it happens so often. Is there a statistic which backs up your reasoning? As I know it's a standard procedure to learn it here while becoming a cop. So I thought it must have some reasoning

Of course I'm in no doubt that it's hard to hit certain body parts and act with reasoning in these kind of situations
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Jun 14 2020 03:39am
Quote (Spinne @ Jun 14 2020 04:32am)
Is that usual training in the US? I'm unfamiliar with the procedure over there. here in Germany they get trained to first try to shoot in nonlethal areas if the attacker has weapons like a stun gun or a knife

(If they have a gun they will also aim for deadly parts of course)


Have you seen what a knife can do to a person....?
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