President Trump started his NATO visit by denouncing Germany's dependence on Russian energy and the Nord Stream pipeline;
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/11/nato-summit-donald-trump-says-germany-is-captive-of-russians

For some background- Germany and other western EU countries have been importing the natural gas that makes up most of their winter heating from Russia, which is whats been propping up the Russian economy even after the Saudi overproduction of oil tanked petroleum markets. After the Crimean Crisis, Merkel has stepped up plans to expand its Nord Stream pipeline to carry gas directly from Russia to Germany, bypassing the eastern former soviet bloc countries like Ukraine that are hostile to Russia. This plan has been partially held up by opposition from those countries like Lithuania, and Poland leading it at the EU, but Merkel holds all the power.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2018/03/29/while-expelling-diplomats-germany-quietly-increases-dependence-on-russian-gas/#8fe8dc15b1c6

Bypassing Ukraine means that they lose any leverage over the EU and Russia since they will no longer be gatekeepers, and Putin gains leverage over the EU and Germany and securing Russia's economy. Its a death knell for Ukrainian sovereignty.
Meanwhile the US under Trump has been aggressively undermining the Russians geopolitically. We've been exporting liquified natural gas to the former soviet bloc and attempting to get the EU to join in. But LNG has to be cooled, shipped and thawed, and thus is more expensive than direct gas pipelines, so Merkel's ostensible opposition to Putin only went as deep as it took to hit the german coffers. Our gas exports are booming at the same time our oil exports are due to the high production from fracking, but as long as Germany would rather deal with Russia and buy their gas, it not only gives Putin all the creeping influence he wanted over the EU, it also renders all sanctions on the Russian economy impotent. Same story as our supposed economic isolation of Iran, as the EU buys up their oil. Shit, if Turkey wasn't a net importer, the EU would have bought up the ISIS oil flowing through them.

So all heil the fourth reich and their red alliance

great post my friend!

gas is absolete anyways.. Expecting Germany to be weening of gas the coming 15 years like we are.

the optimistic estimate is 2030, but germany is phasing out nuclear and looking to phase out coal and replace both with... gas. They won't be realistically able to go to an all-green energy economy in the next few decades. Even if all the heating gas which still dwarfs the power sector was phased out completely, gas would still be supplementing the renewables in power. But I think all the heating-replacement phaseout predictions are too optimistic even at those less radical numbers. Residential housing and older commercial buildings have long half-lives of phaseout of older tech when replacements come on timescales of decades. And with climate change mitigation at odds with gas reduction, you'll be using sniffing those russian farts for the foreseeable future.

Shaming our allies publicly for having working relationships with Russia... something Trump claims would be a good thing for our country and the world. Weird stuff... just completely incoherent.

as i stated in the EU topic already, this scenario is a result of the failed energy policy in germany
shutting down nuclear power, now they want to get out of coal as well and only complete idiots believe that renewable energy is enough to supply an industrial nation

this mess is caused by left wing and green ideology, most people deciding about energy here dont even know what an electric current is

so its not suprising that merkel goes for cheap gas to prevent a total collapse in germany, good job really

aside from that i personally dont see a reason to not buy gas from russia and we should stop supporting the american anti russia agitation
we only hurt our own comapnies and the working class and we achieve nothing

if you want to sell your own gas/oil make a better price, it is as simple as that, your historical comparison is ridiculous

What else could Trump do? He's spent the last year and a half undermining Russian energy exports and trying to break into the EU with LNG and oppose the Russo-German pipelines, but Merkel has just blazed ahead over the combined objections of eastern europe and the US. Its right in the Trump Doctrine published in big bold letters that our international security strategy is intentionally pivoting to the economic sphere. Our national security, our international geopolitics and our trade policies are all one and the same now. So what good is NATO if Merkel is consciously ceding geopolitical influence to Russia in exchange for cheap energy? She offers up token concessions like chipping in more military budget or expelling Russian diplomats, but the real diplomatic great game is occurring with pipelines, exports and imports. If our NATO allies want to form closer relationships with Russia instead of relying on the US, then maybe they aren't really our NATO allies.

Trump's not going to stop the EU's romance with Putin using only the carrot, he's going to have to deploy stick.

Trump is a dick and his cs'ers are loving it.

These things take time, and yes, with Russia being nearby, it's logical to buy gas from them instead of from the US. The annexing of Crimea is a concern in these type of deals, just like selling weapons to Israel after their annexation of the west bank. But it's not the only reason to buy or not buy gas from them.


Basically yes, Germany can decide with whom they do business. Sanctions over Crimea are apart from specific energy deals.


Lol, The US is particular keen in making bilateral trade deals, the world should buy US good, and if you don't, we will not give you protection. It sounds like a Italian Mafia statement.
Actually makes me want to avoid doing business with the US.

This post was edited by Knoppie on Jul 11 2018 08:23am

It just doesn't jive with Trump's rhetoric. Are we trying to isolate Russia or are we trying to bring them into the fold?