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Sep 9 2013 08:42pm


theres more to it as well, such as how the church came to be anti-semitic, but the main point of it is that he uses passages from the new testament to show that not only was jesus jewish, but he was a religious jew and never himself told his followers to be anything other than that. it was only paul who came along later and did away with the 'jewish' aspects in order to proselytize non-jews who would be too keen on circumcision and other commandments. according to that, most of modern christianity contradicts the actual teachings of jesus, instead being based upon pauls teachings in the name of jesus. the jews for jesus would be the closest thing to what the original followers of jesus were, although their beliefs have been influenced and muddled by 2000 years of paulinian christianity.
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Sep 9 2013 08:51pm
Matthew 28:18-20
New International Version (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
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Sep 9 2013 09:00pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Sep 9 2013 07:51pm)
Matthew 28:18-20
New International Version (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


after the age ends, you are on your own sucker.
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Sep 9 2013 09:00pm
Way too long to watch the entire thing, but his Christian theology is wrong, which isn't surprising because that's not his area of expertise.

He's wrong by blaming the Church for saying Jesus is not Jewish (For one, most major Christian sects state Jesus is Jewish). For a very long time, the Romans considered Christians to be a sect of Judaism. It evolved into it's own religion over hundreds of years. Very similar to other examples such as Shinto, Ba'hai Faith and Islam. Shinto evolved from a melding of Japanese culture and Buddhism, to where it can easily be considered it's own religion. Bahá'í Faith emerged as a sect of Shia Islam into it's own religion, and now is clearly distinct from Islam that it's quite close to some early Christian sects, instead of being a sect of Islam.. slam with basic Abrahamic religion, taking some basic ideology, doctrine and deities, and molding itself into it's own. The Jewish aspects of Chrisianity were done away as Christianity syncretized Roman/Greek Polytheism and Germanic/Celtic rituals into Christianity, a Jewish sect.

This post was edited by Caedus on Sep 9 2013 09:01pm
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Sep 9 2013 09:18pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Sep 9 2013 09:51pm)
Matthew 28:18-20
New International Version (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


and what was it he commanded them?

Matthew 23:1-3

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

he told them to follow the jewish law, but to do it properly, with proper intentions, not just for appearances sake. he didnt say to abandon them. that came only with paul.





Quote (Caedus @ Sep 9 2013 10:00pm)
Way too long to watch the entire thing, but his Christian theology is wrong, which isn't surprising because that's not his area of expertise.

He's wrong by blaming the Church for saying Jesus is not Jewish (For one, most major Christian sects state Jesus is Jewish). For a very long time, the Romans considered Christians to be a sect of Judaism. It evolved into it's own religion over hundreds of years. Very similar to other examples such as Shinto, Ba'hai Faith and Islam. Shinto evolved from a melding of Japanese culture and Buddhism, to where it can easily be considered it's own religion. Bahá'í Faith emerged as a sect of Shia Islam into it's own religion, and now is clearly distinct from Islam that it's quite close to some early Christian sects, instead of being a sect of Islam.. slam with basic Abrahamic religion, taking some basic ideology, doctrine and deities, and molding itself into it's own. The Jewish aspects of Chrisianity were done away as Christianity syncretized Roman/Greek Polytheism and Germanic/Celtic rituals into Christianity, a Jewish sect.


i dont remember that part specifically, but the church HAS obscured the fact that jesus was jewish, especially when persecuting jews. kinda hard to call for the persecution of your lord and saviours people... his point was that currently, and for a long time, now, christianity has not been considered a subset of judaism. he doesnt dispute that it originally was, in fact thats part of his premise. the first 'christians' were a subset of judaism who kept all the jewish laws.
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Sep 9 2013 09:26pm
Quote (ReturnFormer @ Sep 9 2013 09:18pm)
and what was it he commanded them? 

Matthew 23:1-3

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

he told them to follow the jewish law, but to do it properly, with proper intentions, not just for appearances sake.  he didnt say to abandon them.  that came only with paul.







i dont remember that part specifically, but the church HAS obscured the fact that jesus was jewish, especially when persecuting jews.  kinda hard to call for the persecution of your lord and saviours people...  his point was that currently, and for a long time, now, christianity has not been considered a subset of judaism.  he doesnt dispute that it originally was, in fact thats part of his premise.  the first 'christians' were a subset of judaism who kept all the jewish laws.


have you been into any church recently? youtube does not equal reality
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Sep 9 2013 09:48pm
Quote (ReturnFormer @ Sep 9 2013 11:18pm)
dont remember that part specifically, but the church HAS obscured the fact that jesus was jewish, especially when persecuting jews. kinda hard to call for the persecution of your lord and saviours people... his point was that currently, and for a long time, now, christianity has not been considered a subset of judaism. he doesnt dispute that it originally was, in fact thats part of his premise. the first 'christians' were a subset of judaism who kept all the jewish laws.


They really don't. My experience with Christian religion is it's made abundantly clear that Jesus was born a Jew, and died a Jew. What the church doesn't tell people is how Christianity became what it is today, but they all readily acknowledge Jesus was a Jew.

Christianity is not considered a sect of Judaism because it no longer is. I'd say Christianity stopped being a Jewish sect probably around 200AD. By the time of Constantine the Great, Christianity was it's own religion. Jesus' doctrine set up the framework for a sect that evolved into it's own religion. It's quite possible we'll see the same thing happen with Jehovah's Witnesses in the future, with it becoming it's own religion. He seems biased against the Christian church and sees them as anti-Semetic. In fact, for much of it's history, church law dictated that Jews should not be forced to convert or be killed, as church doctrine said they would all convert in the end times. The Roman Catholic church was probably the greatest defender of Jewish peoples during the Middle Ages.
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Sep 10 2013 12:30pm
Quote (Clicquot @ Sep 9 2013 10:26pm)
have you been into any church recently? youtube does not equal reality


has does not equal does.


Quote (Caedus @ Sep 9 2013 10:48pm)
They really don't. My experience with Christian religion is it's made abundantly clear that Jesus was born a Jew, and died a Jew. What the church doesn't tell people is how Christianity became what it is today, but they all readily acknowledge Jesus was a Jew.

Christianity is not considered a sect of Judaism because it no longer is. I'd say Christianity stopped being a Jewish sect probably around 200AD. By the time of Constantine the Great, Christianity was it's own religion. Jesus' doctrine set up the framework for a sect that evolved into it's own religion. It's quite possible we'll see the same thing happen with Jehovah's Witnesses in the future, with it becoming it's own religion. He seems biased against the Christian church and sees them as anti-Semetic. In fact, for much of it's history, church law dictated that Jews should not be forced to convert or be killed, as church doctrine said they would all convert in the end times. The Roman Catholic church was probably the greatest defender of Jewish peoples during the Middle Ages.


well, thats a side point, really, whether the church has readily acknowledged that jesus was jewish. they certainly dont make much of the fact that he was a religious jew, with all the beliefs and practices of a religious jew. and thats whats central to his point. (the fact of it, not whether people acknowledge it or not.) scriptural evidence from the new testament itself shows that jesus was a practicing observant jew, as well as his initial followers. it wasnt until they started proselytizing non-jews that they started doing away with following the commandments, and even then, it was only the non-jews who joined the sect and didnt convert who didnt have to keep all the commandments. they only had to keep to a few certain things, mentioned in the new testament, which also happen to the basis of the 7 noahide laws that judaism believes non-jews are obligated to keep. so it wasnt even a doing away with of jewish law, initially, they just told them that if they didnt want to convert, they could still be a part of the sect if they follow the 7 noahide laws, which fits in fine with jewish law. it wasnt until later that paul did away jewish law completely.


Quote (Caedus @ Sep 9 2013 10:48pm)
The Roman Catholic church was probably the greatest defender of Jewish peoples during the Middle Ages.


youre kidding, right? does the crusades ring a bell? i think its like the last 15-20 min or so where he covers this aspect. he brings quotes from many christian philosophers who were anti-semitic.
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Sep 10 2013 12:40pm
Quote (ReturnFormer @ Sep 10 2013 02:30pm)
well, thats a side point, really, whether the church has readily acknowledged that jesus was jewish.  they certainly dont make much of the fact that he was a religious jew, with all the beliefs and practices of a religious jew.  and thats whats central to his point.  (the fact of it, not whether people acknowledge it or not.)  scriptural evidence from the new testament itself shows that jesus was a practicing observant jew, as well as his initial followers.  it wasnt until they started proselytizing non-jews that they started doing away with following the commandments, and even then, it was only the non-jews who joined the sect and didnt convert who didnt have to keep all the commandments.  they only had to keep to a few certain things, mentioned in the new testament, which also happen to the basis of the 7 noahide laws that judaism believes non-jews are obligated to keep.  so it wasnt even a doing away with of jewish law, initially, they just told them that if they didnt want to convert, they could still be a part of the sect if they follow the 7 noahide laws, which fits in fine with jewish law. it wasnt until later that paul did away jewish law completely.

youre kidding, right? does the crusades ring a bell?  i think its like the last 15-20 min or so where he covers this aspect. he brings quotes from many christian philosophers who were anti-semitic.


Are they supposed to preface every mention of Jesus with, "He was a religious Jew". If course not. They had their own practices after Jesus' death, and they actively sought converts from Day One. They didn't start to ignore their Jewish background to get converts. Judaism doesn't actively seek coverts, which is a key aspect of the Jewish sect that would soon become Christianity. Paul was a prophet of the sect, he didn't seek to change it so it wasnt Judaism anymore. That slowly happened.

And I'm absolutely not kidding. The Roman Catholic Church had a policy of protecting Jew. It was the laypeople who lead an fought in the crusades, they had little if anything understanding of church doctrine, and even the bible. The church was quite angry at some of the things crusaders did, most notably the sack of Constantinople.
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Sep 10 2013 12:50pm
Quote (Caedus @ Sep 9 2013 08:48pm)
The Roman Catholic church was probably the greatest defender of Jewish peoples during the Middle Ages.

Protected them by forcing them to wear marks to identify themselves as Jewish, lol.
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