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Aug 9 2012 02:37am
Was Jesus truly crucified?

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Besm Ellah El Rahman El Raheem

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا ﴿١٥٧

Waqawlihim Ina Qatalna-Al Maseeh ,Eesa Ebn Maryama Rasool Allah Wa Ma Qataloohou Wa Ma Salabuhu Wa Lakin Shoubeha Lahum Wa Inal-LaTHeena Ikhtalafoun Feehi La Fee Shakin Minhu Ma Lahoum Beh Men ,Elm Ila-Tiba, THan Wa Ma Qataloohou Yaqeena

“And they said in boast: “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, and apostle of Allah,” but neither did they kill him, nor crucify him, but it was made to appear to them so. And those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no certain knowledge. They follow only conjecture, for assuredly, they killed him not”


Holy Qur'an, Surah An-Nisa' (4), Verse 157

As everyone knows, Islam rejects three aspects from the Christian Religion, and one of them is the Crucifixion. The Crucifixion is what Christianity is based upon. Our Christian friends believe that Jesus Christ – whom they consider to be the literal “Son of God” – came on Earth as God in manly form, in order to sacrifice himself “for the sins of mankind.”

Before I continue with this topic, I would like to remind the reader, that according to the Bible, “If Christ is not risen from the dead, then our preaching is in vain, and our faith is also in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:14), which means that if the crucifixion is proven to be false, then the whole concept of Christianity automatically crumbles along with it. Again, these are not my words!

Please remember that verse from the Bible, as it is very important for the topic which I present here in this thread.

Contents of this Thread:

1: Talking to the Christian.
2: What do the Gospels say?
3: Contradictions within the Gospels.
4: Prophecies indicating that Jesus will not die.
5: The story behind the alleged crucifixion.
6: Jesus was unwilling.
7: The unfair trial.
8: Crucifixion, or Cruci-Fiction?
9: Conclusion.


1: Talking to the Christian.

Following is a typical conversation that takes place every now and then between me and Christians. As usual, “M” is for the Muslim (Me), and “C” is for the Christian.

C: So you're a Muslim?

M: Yes! I became a Muslim around the middle of the year 2006.

C: And what were you before?

M: A Christian Catholic.

C: (raising his eyebrows) And you left Christianity and your salvation to follow Islam? What made you convert to Islam? Why did you betray your family, your culture, and Jesus who died for your sins? I suggest that you pray to Jesus and ask for his forgiveness, and he will surely take you back! You are following a wrong path that will lead you to Hell!

M: Islam makes absolute sense to me, and I am following...(he cuts me off)

C: Islam rejects Jesus! How could you reject the Messiah who died for your sins?

M: Please allow me to explain (I pause for a moment to make sure he won't cut me off again) We Muslims believe in Jesus (pbuh). We believe that he was the Messiah, but Islam rejects the crucifixion.

C: What? Then who will pay for your sins?

M: In Islam, we believe that everyone is born sinless, and is made responsible for his or her own sins. We believe in Jesus Christ (pbuh) as a mighty Prophet and Messenger of God, but we reject the doctrine of the Original Sin, as well as the Trinity, and of course the crucifixion.

C: Oh Lord Jesus have mercy! (he makes the sign of the cross three times while he is speaking) Then you have nothing left! Especially since you don't believe in the crucifixion! You are lost without Jesus and his sacrifice for your sins! Return to Jesus NOW! Jesus is the only way!

M: No disrespect, I have already found the way, and that is by following Islamic Monotheism.

C: What about that Moon-God, Allah? He tells you in his book to worship him instead of God, and he also tells you to deny Jesus' sacrifice for you! That is what you just told me! Why do you Muslims deny the Gospel and blood sacrifice of Jesus? Why?

M: We Muslims do not contradict Jesus. The Holy Qur'an says: “And they said in boast: 'We killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, and apostle of Allah,' but they killed him not, nor crucify him, but it was made to appear to them so. And those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no certain knowledge. They follow only conjecture, for assuredly, they killed him not” (Holy Qur'an, Surah An-Nisa' (4), Verse 157), and you will be surprised to know that even in your Bible evidence exists which proves that the crucifixion never happened!
C: (highly excited now) WHAT?!? WHERE?!? The Bible only teaches that Jesus was tortured, killed on the cross, buried, and was resurrected 3 days later! So how can you utter such blasphemies? Are you reading some kind of Muslim Bible or something? And how can we trust the word of an illiterate desert-dweller who came 600 years later? How can this Arab know better than the companions and close followers of Jesus?

M: There is no such thing as a Muslim Bible. You reserve the right not to want to listen to what the Qur'an says. Yet, I can show you solid evidence from your Bible that Jesus wasn't crucified. Would you care to listen?

C: Ha! This is something I really gotta see!

Having said thus, I take the Christian on a small journey; a journey which I am very proud to present to you too. The arguments and verses I will give can be found in any Bible in the world, regardless of which version you are using. Please bare in mind that the Christian, as you read above, was informed that Jesus was “neither killed, nor crucified” and of course his most obvious reaction was the following: (Christian) “How can we trust the word of an illiterate desert-dweller who came 600 years later?” Of course, we as Muslims know that the Qur'an is the Perfect Word of God, and we know that everything in the Qur'an is correct. However, the Christian doesn't accept the Qur'an to be the word of God. Some of them have even been trained to hate Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the Qur'an, and everything Islamic.

Thus, we have no other alternative other than referring them to the Bible itself to prove our position. The Bible, in its present-day form, is nowhere near the original Torah, Psalms, Gospel etc. that were revealed to the Holy Prophets who pre-dated Muhammad (pbut all), but the good news is that there are still parts of these Scriptures that have remained intact, and have thus survived up to this day in the present-day Bible.

It is these parts which I will turn to in order to prove my arguments as indeed valid. Why, I even have a good argument that generates from the discrepancies of the Bible! Thus, in short, it is a win-win situation!

Ironically, when the Christian tells me: “My Bible says this, my Bible says that”, I reply using a famous verse from the Holy Qur'an: “Produce your proof, if you are truthful.” (Holy Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara (2), verse 111). The Christian, at that moment, happily brings forth his book of authority; the Holy Bible. The poor chap hasn't the slightest form of a clue of what awaits him!
For those who vigorously defend their Christian faith and its foundation, the following contents of this chapter will surely be disturbing. However, rest assured that it has been written in good will, and the only objective is to expose the ultimate truth behind the alleged crucifixion. Thus, the question arises:

Is the crucifixion true, or was it a hoax?

At this point, I would like to bring to your attention what “Billy Graham”, the great evangelist, once said (quote): “I was forced to the conclusion that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is either one of the most wicked, heartless, vicious hoaxes ever fisted upon the minds of men, or it is the most fantastic fact of History.

Continued in part 2...


This post was edited by poulgaragr on Aug 9 2012 02:45am
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Aug 9 2012 02:38am
2: What do the Gospels say?

Before I move further into showing the evidence, I would like to comment on the “Gospels” that are part of today’s canon. The Christians proudly boast that they have more than 25,000 copies of the New Testament, and that (quote) “as long as we have at least 10 copies, then you don't need the original to guarantee the original” (Jimmy Swaggart, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, November 1986, from his debate with Sheikh Ahmad Deedat: “Is the Bible the Word of God”). Yet, Christian Scholars today tell us that out of these 25,000+ manuscripts, no two are alike!
This is quite an amazing fact! And what makes this situation all the more awkward is that not a single one of the “Gospels” has the signature or mark of its author! No wonder Christians have labelled their Gospels as: “The Gospel according to St. Matthew, The Gospel according to St. Mark, The Gospel according to St. Luke, The Gospel according to St. John.”

And the reason for this “According to” is because the Gospels are indeed not autographed. It is only assumed that they were the words spoken by the Gospel owners, written by third people at least 60-65 years after Jesus. This means that the oldest Gospel (St. Mark) was written after the death of Jesus' disciples! The 100 scholars who translated the New International Version removed the “According to's” from the four Gospels. This is procedurally incorrect, because if we read the four Gospels, we can find clear indications in all of them that they were written by third-party; people who didn't witness the happenings, but merely wrote what they considered to be the “truth”, each in his own version, and then again, “according to” the words of a deceased character! It is also worthy to mention that out of the four Gospels, two of them weren't even the disciples of Jesus, but in fact were Paul's students. One of them was Mark, and the other was Luke the physician.

3: Contradictions within the Gospels.

The argument here is quite simple, and easy for the human mind to comprehend: Since the Gospels contradict each other on many accounts concerning the crucifixion, then how are we to know which is true or not? Or, worse, how can we know if any of these reports is true at all? For example, we have the incident of Mary visiting the tomb, after the alleged crucifixion. At this point it depends on which Gospel you are reading. They say that:

Matt 28:1
Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary

Mark 16:1
Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome

Luke 24:10
Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women

John 20:1
Mary Magdalene only

Which is correct? Did Mary Magdalene go alone after all, or did she have others with her? It truly makes you think critically and wonder if the Gospels lack credibility, which (obviously) they do! And since we do not know which Gospel is speaking the truth, then how can we trust any Gospel at all in the first place? Allegedly, as any Christian would boast, these “Gospels” speak the Good news; the truth! But where is the truth after all?

Another example is the record of what happened at the visit to the tomb:

Matt 28:1
Earthquake, then an Angel came down to roll the stone

Mark 16:4
Stone rolled away, and one man sitting inside the tomb

Luke 24:2-4
Stone rolled away, and two men standing outside the tomb

John 20:1,12
Stone rolled away, and two Angels inside the tomb

Was there an earthquake after all, or not? Did an Angel come to roll away the stone? Was the stone already rolled away? How many men were they? Were they inside, or outside of the tomb? Were they men after all, or Angels?

It truly makes you wonder...

Since obviously there are contradictions within the Gospels, we come to the conclusion that the authors wrote what they had heard from others, but hadn't witnessed the happenings themselves. Their knowledge was from hearsay!

Yet, let us not bury the subject just yet! Let us give the “Gospels” the benefit of the doubt. Yet, I must give an ample warning: Experience has taught me that the more you read and look into something, the more things you discover along the way. And in this case, the Bible has proved to me time and again that it holds lots of discrepancies, which the members of the Church do not wish for the public to know.

4: Prophecies indicating that Jesus will not die.

Even though the Gospel writers never witnessed the happenings of the time of Jesus, they did pen down some of the words of Jesus. There are two clear prophecies in the Gospels that indicate that the Messiah will not die. The first is found in the Gospel according to Matthew:

Prophecy #1: The Sign of Jonah.

38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

In other words, they were asking Prophet Jesus to perform a Miracle (a sign) for them to believe that he is their awaited Messiah. Jesus sharply answers:

39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the Prophet Jonah. 40 For in the same way that Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth.” / Matthew 12:38-40 (1994 Good News Bible)

Now, I ask: What was the sign of Jonah? What was his miracle? We all know the story of Jonah and the whale that swallowed him when he was cast into a raging sea. Of course, the miracle of Jonah is that he was ALIVE when he was thrown into the storming sea. When the whale gobbled him up, he was supposed to DIE, but the miracle was that he remained ALIVE!
The whale took him three days and three nights around the ocean, and in the meantime, he was supposed to DIE in its belly, but he remained ALIVE. Jonah's miracle was that he was ALIVE in the belly of the whale. The story of Jonah is only 2 pages; you can read it in less than 10 minutes to confirm that my words are true.

Jesus too, after the ordeal he supposedly went through, ought to die. But if he would have died, then it would have been NO MIRACLE. If, on the contrary, he had LIVED, it would have been a miracle, just like Jonah! When Jesus was nailed to the cross, it was Friday afternoon, and the Jews, who are afraid of their sacred day (Sabbath – see Deuteronomy 21:23), were in a hurry to bring him down. So, for that reason, they brought him down after three hours, alive, but of course without knowing. Thus he was alive in the tomb, just like Jonah!

At this point, the Christians will say:No, no, no! You got it wrong! Jesus was talking about a time factor, that's why he repeated the word “three” four times! It was a time factor!

So I ask: What is so miraculous about a time factor? What is so special about doing something in the same time limit as someone else? For example, it takes me 15 minutes to drive from my home to work. A friend of mine, who also happens to work in the same area, takes also 15 minutes to travel the same distance every day. Would that also qualify as been a miracle? Of course not!

Yet again, I can understand that the Christian's salvation is at stake here, so he is “looking for a way out”, but since we are looking into a very important topic here, we cannot simply accept anything told to us without examining it! And what makes the matter even worse is that even if it were a time factor, by reading the Scriptures we discover that Jesus Christ failed a second time!

Let's analyse it and see if it is truly a time factor:

Jesus was put in the tomb at Friday night. (1 night)
Saturday day he was still supposed to be there. (1 day)
Saturday night he was still supposed to be there. (1 night)


Sunday morning, which is the first day of the week, when Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb, it is empty. Thus, how many days and how many nights?

Answer: 2 Nights and 1 Day.

Question: Does 3 days and 3 nights sound like 2 nights and 1 day?

Some people might say that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday! This is outright ridiculous, because the Scripture clearly states:

*Mark 15:42 “Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath,”

*Luke 23:54 “That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near.”

Obviously, it was on a Friday. Thus, there is no real arguments that can be brought up here.

Prophecy #2: Jesus will not die outside of Jerusalem!

The next argument is very straightforward, and easy to comprehend. Jesus Christ predicted that he will not die! This might seem strange to our Christian friends, but here is the ultimate proof that the crucifixion is actually a fiction according to the words of Jesus himself:

“Nevertheless I must walk today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a Prophet would die outside of Jerusalem.” / Luke 13:33

This unique verse in the Bible is sufficient to bring the alleged crucifixion to the ground! Yet, some people need a little bit of an explanation to fully comprehend and adsorb the seriousness of this Biblical verse. Jesus Christ is testifying that no Prophet can die outside of Jerusalem. So the next thing we have to ask ourselves is: Where is Golgotha?

Answer: It is outside of Jerusalem!

In my experience, I have encountered Christians who try to give a weak excuse that Jesus was not just a Prophet, but also God, so he was entitled to die also. It is absurd and ridiculous to make such a fallacious claim. As Jesus clearly testifies in the very same verse, he is proclaiming himself to be a Prophet, and he is giving a clear indication that no Prophet can die outside of Jerusalem. And since you cannot die and live at the same time, then there is really no excuse!

Continued in Part 3...


This post was edited by poulgaragr on Aug 9 2012 02:54am
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Aug 9 2012 02:40am
5: The story behind the alleged crucifixion.

Salvation can only be achieved by the blood sacrifice of Jesus” cries the Christian. Are we to just sit back and swallow every claim that they make? The Holy Qur'an says: “Produce your proof, if you are truthful” (Holy Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara (2), verse 111). Thus, the Qur'an is commanding us to ask for proof, which makes absolute sense. This is also a clear indication from Allah (swt) that we are to read the Bible and examine its content. Allah (swt) also said in His Noble Book: “And if you follow most of those on the Earth, they will misguide you away from the path of Allah. They follow nothing but conjectures (fiction), and they do nothing but lie” (Holy Qur'an, Surah Al An,am (6), verse 116), which is a clear indication that most of those on Earth are following conjectures (guesswork; fiction), and that they fabricate lies to suit their purpose.

The Christian is unwilling to accept the Holy Qur'an as the Word of God, so we have to turn to “key-witnesses”, known as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. As I mentioned back in chapter 3, pages 60-61, part 9, Matthew records a very odd incident of “many holy people raising up from their graves and walking the streets of Jerusalem, and appeared to many.” (Matthew 27:52-53)

To be honest, when I read this passage, vivid images of “Resident Evil” and other zombie films came to mind! The most absurd thing about this story is that out of all the New Testament writers, only Matthew records this! Amazing!

When Jesus rode the donkey into Jerusalem (thus fulfilling Zechariah 9:9, according to Christian belief), Luke added that: “...he was near to Jerusalem, because they thought that the kingdom of God would immediately appear” (Luke 19:11)

So I ask: Which kingdom? It has been over 2010 years, and we haven't seen a sign of the “kingdom of God” YET! Concerning Jesus, he had been told by the Pharisees to rebuke his disciples (John 19:39). The Jews, on the other hand, decided that Jesus was a threat to the nation, and therefore it was “expedient for one man to die for the nation” (John 11:50). Yet, the Jews were reluctant to attempt an arrest in public, due to the fact that Jesus had become popular.

6: Jesus was unwilling.

Jesus was not planning on “accepting his fate” by waiting for the Jews to arrest him. On the contrary, we see that he even prepared his disciples in case a fight was necessary:

35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. 36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. / Luke 22:35-36

Question: What would Jesus and his disciples do with these swords? According to the Christians, Jesus was the “peace-maker”, yet here we see him giving the order for his disciples to arm themselves! And you definitely don't use swords to pare apples and bananas! Swords are used for combat, and combat alone! However, Jesus hadn't predicted a battle against highly-trained Roman soldiers, thus this explains why he thought that “two swords would be enough” (Luke 22:35-38).

Further proof of Jesus' unwillingness is the fact that he leads his 11 disciples to Gethsemane, a courtyard built of stone walls approximately 5 miles out of town. Upon arrival, he leaves 8 of the 11 disciples at the gate, and takes the other 3 (Peter and the 2 sons of Zebedee) further into the garden. So the question arises: Why go to Gethsemane? Surely not for prayer, as they could have prayed in that upper room, or even better, at Solomon's temple. The only reasonable explanation is that they needed to be in a better location to defend themselves if the need arises, and that is why he tactfully placed 8 disciples to guard the gate. He also took the other 3 with him further into the garden, and told them to “watch with me while I pray yonder”. He then went a little farther, and fell on his face (as we Muslims perform “sajda”), and prayed:

37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” 39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” / Matthew 26:37-39

Does this seem like a willing victim to you? Running, hiding, and praying to the heavenly Father to save him? The Scripture tells us:

During the days of Jesus’ life on Earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission / Hebrews 5:7

Note: There is a discrepancy at this point in the story. Jesus, after having prayed, came back to find his disciples sleeping (Matthew 26:40; Mark 14:39-40). Mark says that the disciples had no excuse. However, the most absurd account is given by Luke:

When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. / Luke 22:45

I find it quite odd that Luke, being a physician, gives this unique excuse. According to professors of physiology, when under shock, stress, or fear, the adrenal gland secrets a hormone into the bloodstream which chases away all sleep. I think that what really happened was that the disciples of Jesus had too much food and drink!

Another example of Jesus' unwillingness is at the cross, when he cried out, according to Matthew and Mark: “Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachtani?” which translates into: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34)

Can we possibly attribute such a blasphemy to one of the messengers of God? And can it be possible that Jesus, supposing that he knew his fate, would utter such things? Of course NOT!

7: The unfair trial.

When Jesus and his disciples were approached by a “multitude of men with swords and clubs” (Matthew 26:47), he realised that it would be suicide to attempt any kind of resistance. We are told that one of his disciples drew his sword and struck a servant, and cut off his ear (Matthew 26:51). At this point Jesus told his disciple to put away his sword, as “all who live by the sword, die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52). He was changing his strategy, for the sake of his disciples.

We are told, that at the trial which was given to Jesus, no two witnesses could agree. Even though Jesus was betrayed by one of his disciples, and abandoned by the rest, the worst part is what the Jews had in stock for him. They had reached a verdict BEFORE the trial had even begun! They had determined that “one must die so that a whole nation perish not” (John 11:50)

At the trial, Pontius Pilate asked Jesus what he considers himself to be, and what he has to say in his defence. Although the “Gospels” agree at this point, John alone records something which no other Gospel writer has penned down: Jesus replied to Pilate: “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:33-36). Did Jesus reveal this piece of information only to John? Or was it that only John heard these words? It truly remains a mystery!

Pontius Pilate found Jesus not guilty. However, the cunning Jews blackmailed Pilate, by saying:

If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.” / John 19:12

8: Crucifixion, or Cruci-Fiction?

The Jews were extremely impatient in the matter of getting rid of Jesus. As the Bible testifies, Jesus was on the cross by the sixth hour, and by the ninth hour, he had “given up the spirit” (Matthew 27:45-50). There is supporting evidence which proves that this event is grossly exaggerated, and that Jesus couldn't have died on the cross!

Evidence #1: Jesus couldn't have died so fast! As previously noted, the crucifixion only lasted 3 hours! Normally, for a person to die on the cross, it takes at least 2-3 days!
The length of time required to reach death could range from two to three days, depending on the prior health of the condemned, and environmental circumstances. Death could result from any combination of causes, including blood loss resulting in hypovolemic shock, or sepsis following infection, caused either by the scourging that sometimes preceded the crucifixion or by the process of being nailed itself, or eventual dehydration. A theory attributed to Pierre Barbet holds that, when the whole body weight was supported by the stretched arms, the typical cause of death was asphyxiation. He conjectured that the condemned would have severe difficulty inhaling, due to hyper-expansion of the chest muscles and lungs. The condemned would therefore have to draw himself up by his arms, leading to exhaustion, or have his feet supported by tying or by a wood block.

Evidence #2: Jesus spoke just before his alleged “death on the cross”. Normally, crucifixion takes a lengthy amount of time, during which a person slowly suffocates to death, as I mention above. However, the Bible contradicts this basic aspect of common sense by reporting that Jesus spoke clearly before he “yielded up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50). How can that be?

Evidence #3: Blood came out of the wound! It is reported that a Roman soldier pierced Jesus' side, and blood and water came out of the wound (John 19:34). It is a blessing of God that when the human body cannot endure further agony and pain, we fall unconscious. But immobility, fatigue, and the unnatural stance on the cross must have slowed down the blood circulation. The lancing from the Roman soldier came to the rescue. By “blood-letting”, the circulation could again regain its rhythm. We are assured in the Encyclopedia Biblica, under the article “cross”, page 516, column 960, that “Jesus was alive when the spear was thrust”. This also confirms the statement of John that the flow of “water and blood” was instant.

But why the “water and blood”? Dr. W.B. Primrose, a Senior Anaesthetic of the Glasgow Royal Infirmary, gave his expert opinion: In the “Thinkers Digest”, London Winter 1949 issue, he said that (quote): “The water was a result of the nervous upset of the blood vessels locally due to the overstimulating effect of the scourging by staves”. This may be an extreme case, but so was his sweating, like “great drops of blood, falling down to the ground”, when Jesus was in agony in the Garden of Gethsemane (Luke 22:44). Medical authorities also confirm the latter phenomenon.

Evidence #4: Pilate marvelled when he heard that Jesus had died (Mark 15:44) so soon! Why was Pontius Pilate surprised to hear that Jesus had died? The reason is that he knew, from military experience, that no man would die on the cross within just 3 hours!

Evidence #5: Furthermore, we all know the story of Mary Magdalene coming to the tomb in order to anoint Jesus (Mark 16:1), and there she found the stone removed and the winding sheets unwound. Now do Jews anoint their dead after such a long period of time? We all know that after only three hours of death, rigor mortis sets in, and the cells harden, and thus the body becomes stiff and impossible to manipulate. Of course, this is not the case, unless Mary was looking for a living Jesus!

Evidence #6: The Winding sheets were unwound and the stone was removed. My second question is this: Does a resurrected body (Spirit; more on this later on in this chapter) require a stone to be removed? Does it require for the sheets to be unwound? The answer is no!

Evidence #7: So when Mary Magdalene comes out of the tomb, she meets a gardener, whom in reality is Jesus Christ in disguise. The Scripture says: “Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.” (John 20:15). The Scripture says that she didn't recognize him, because he was disguised like a gardener, so my question arises:

Do spirits look like gardeners? The answer is of course no! Then why does Jesus Christ disguise himself as a gardener? The answer to that is simply because he was afraid of the Jews, which means that he hadn't conquered death yet, which means that he was in flesh and blood, and not a resurrected spirit!

Evidence #8: Also, notice what Mary said: “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.” (John 20:15) Notice here the word “him” and not “it”. If Jesus was a dead body, she would have said “it”, but she did not. Why? Simply because Mary must have known beforehand that Jesus was alive, but of course, she wasn't going to shout that out in-front of the Roman soldiers when they had just brought him down from the cross, or else they would have put him back up again!

Evidence #9: At this point, Jesus Christ says to her: “Mary.” She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni! (which means “teacher” in Hebrew)” (John 20:16). When she goes forth to grab him, he says: “Touch me not!” (John 20:17) Why touch me not? Simply because he is a physical body, and not a spirit! And imagine the pain he went through! Therefore it would hurt if she would have touched him!

Evidence #10: He says: “I have not yet ascended unto my Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, “I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17). Meaning what? Simply meaning that he has not died yet!

Evidence #11: The disciples were terrified and frightened of Jesus, as they thought that he was a ghost (Luke 24:37). Do notice the word: “and supposed” meaning they thought that he was a spirit. But did he look like a spirit? No! Then I say why should the disciples think that the man is a spirit, when he didn't look like one? Well, the reason is that the disciples of Jesus, had heard that the master was hanged on the cross, and that he had given up the ghost. And they had heard that he was dead and buried for three days. So when they suddenly saw him in-front of them, they were terrified! So Jesus Christ, wanting to assure them that he was not a resurrected spirit, tells them: “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: Handle me and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have.” (Luke 24:39)

Evidence #12: Spirits do not eat! The Scripture tells us:

Luke 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, “Have ye here any meat?”
Luke 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and a honeycomb,
Luke 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.


I ask: What was Jesus trying to prove? The simple answer is that he was himself, and that he was not resurrected, because the resurrected bodies become spirits! The Bible says:

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The same is confirmed by Jesus Christ, in the Gospel according to St. Luke, Chapter 20, Verses 27-36. It concerns the story of the woman who had seven husbands:

27 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the Angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.” / Luke 20:27-36

Basically, the Jews came to Jesus and told him that a woman had seven husbands, and finally the woman also died. So they asked Jesus what would happen on the other side, meaning on the day of resurrection, when seven brothers will want her all at the same time. Wouldn't there be a war in Heaven about this one woman? Jesus answers that they need not marry any more, as a person who is resurrected becomes equal unto the Angels, meaning they become angelised, meaning they will become spirits.

9: Conclusion.

It is hard to believe, that after giving all this evidence, one would still blindly accept the crucifixion as authentic. The strong evidence of contradictory reports, combined with prophecies, and the obvious points which prove that Jesus actually survived, make it a strong barrier for any logical thinker into accepting the crucifixion. Any truth seeker can examine this evidence carefully, and come to the conclusion that the crucifixion is in fact pure fiction.

Lastly, the Bible mentions something very interesting:

1 Corinthians 15:14 “And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty (in vain) and your faith is also empty (in vain).”

I believe you know the serious implication of this statement after having read this thread!

Case Closed!


This post was edited by poulgaragr on Aug 9 2012 03:04am
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Aug 9 2012 03:16am
Im not 100% convinced, try again.
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Aug 9 2012 03:25am
I'm surprised, this is very well written and flows quite well. Bravo. I see some very interesting points in there, but I'm no expert on the bible. I imagine this thread will not make for good posting, as usually when someone posts scientific evidence of something that is somewhat rigorous, it's ignored, just as this probably will be ignored due to its depth and scope and by those who will say 'TLDR'

<3

This post was edited by AEtheric on Aug 9 2012 03:36am
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Aug 9 2012 03:28am
Matthew 13:10-13

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables
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Aug 9 2012 03:35am
Poultrygraa, what do you think of the Gospel of Thomas?
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Aug 9 2012 04:36am
Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 9 2012 05:35am)
Poultrygraa, what do you think of the Gospel of Thomas?




...Thomas acknowledges the resurrection and the divinity of Jesus -

John 20:27-29

New International Version (NIV)

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
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Aug 9 2012 04:39am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Aug 9 2012 04:36am)
...Thomas acknowledges the resurrection and the divinity of Jesus -

John 20:27-29

New International Version (NIV)

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


The Gospel of Thomas does not recognize that Jesus was crucified. That quote comes from the Gospel of John, which is speculated by Elaine Pagels to have been written for the sole purpose of refuting the Gospel of Thomas by putting Thomas in a foul position and other various ways that I can't remember.
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Aug 9 2012 04:41am
Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 9 2012 06:39am)
The Gospel of Thomas does not recognize that Jesus was crucified. That quote comes from the Gospel of John, which is speculated by Elaine Pagels to have been written for the sole purpose of refuting the Gospel of Thomas by putting Thomas in a foul position and other various ways that I can't remember.




...the 4 Gospels each have a different purpose . John is meant to establish the divinity of Jesus .
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