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Mar 27 2018 12:06pm
Quote (Scaly @ Mar 27 2018 04:23pm)
I can't see it. I think it's the conflation of Jews and Zionism/Israel by critics of the labour party and of Corbyn within the party that have lead to these charges.
But as I've said before - I'm willing to be proven wrong, I despise racism in all it's forms and if you can give me evidence of this 'widespread problem' then I'll happily join Labour/Corbyn critics in calling for action.

All I'm asking for is some examples of actual antisemitism from Labour MPs. I've asked several times now and you've refused, or been unable, to give any. You say I'm being deluded or tribalistic if I can;t see it - WELL FUCKING SHOW ME SOME.


Wait - why does it have to be antisemitism only from Labour MPs, as if the Labour party isn't also made up of councillors and members that may be antisemitic and are part of the problem I'm referring to? Either way, here's your evidence:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/27/naz-shah-timeline-of-events-leading-to-mps-suspension-from-labour - This shows the timeline of events in the suspension of Naz Shah MP from the labour party. 'The Jews are rallying.''Transport the Jews to America.' She was reinstated to the Labour party in July 2016.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/how-ken-livingstone-left-labour-in-turmoil-after-claiming-hitler/ - As you mentioned, this documents how the former mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, was suspended from the Labour Party due to comments about Hitler and support of Zionism.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/eight-dodgy-things-ken-livingstone-has-said-jews-hitler/ - Read what Ken Livingstone has said in the past and tell me this is just a one off and Ken was totally justified in his statements

https://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/oxford-university-labour-club-anti-semitism-report-baroness-royall-jewish-students-a7170446.html - This documents how the Oxford university Labour club were open discriminating against Jews even in their own party, largely down to conflating them as individuals with the actions of Israel. Every time Israel are involved in a breach of human rights, anti-semitic attacks increase in the following months. Do you think that's a coincidence? This is the conflation of Jews and Israel that I've been consistently referring to.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends - Calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends doesn't bother me as a singular issue if its specifically done to promote peace talks. You have to talk with your enemies sometimes. It's the consistency of him being associated with these types of groups over the years that cannot just be dismissed as Jezza doing his usual campaigning for world peace:

Quote
Corbyn supported the pro-Palestinian group Deir Yassin Remembered, founded by Holocaust denier Paul Eisen, and had attended one of the group's events. In 2012, Corbyn praised leader of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel Raed Salah who had been found guilty of using the antisemitic trope of the blood libel in a speech in 2007.


Quote
At a meeting hosted by Stop the War Coalition in 2009, Corbyn said he invited "friends" from Hamas and Hezbollah to an event in parliament, referred to Hamas as "an organisation dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people," and said that the British government's labelling of Hamas as a terrorist organisation is "a big, big historical mistake."


Do I think Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite? No, even though given the company he keeps and his failure to act on anti-semitism in the party suggests otherwise.

Also bear in mind, and this is a crucial point: I'm not saying that Labour members are more anti-semitic than Conservatives or any other party members in general, I'm saying that Labour hasn't done enough to tackle anti-semitism from the grassroots up and now those minority of people are having their bigoted views normalised while enjoying greater influence within the party, which is the main distinction from the Conservatives and other mainstream parties (excl UKIP).


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Mar 27 2018 04:24pm
Quote (dro94 @ 27 Mar 2018 18:06)
Wait - why does it have to be antisemitism only from Labour MPs, as if the Labour party isn't also made up of councillors and members that may be antisemitic and are part of the problem I'm referring to? Either way, here's your evidence:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/27/naz-shah-timeline-of-events-leading-to-mps-suspension-from-labour - This shows the timeline of events in the suspension of Naz Shah MP from the labour party. 'The Jews are rallying.''Transport the Jews to America.' She was reinstated to the Labour party in July 2016.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/how-ken-livingstone-left-labour-in-turmoil-after-claiming-hitler/ - As you mentioned, this documents how the former mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, was suspended from the Labour Party due to comments about Hitler and support of Zionism.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/eight-dodgy-things-ken-livingstone-has-said-jews-hitler/ - Read what Ken Livingstone has said in the past and tell me this is just a one off and Ken was totally justified in his statements

https://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/oxford-university-labour-club-anti-semitism-report-baroness-royall-jewish-students-a7170446.html - This documents how the Oxford university Labour club were open discriminating against Jews even in their own party, largely down to conflating them as individuals with the actions of Israel. Every time Israel are involved in a breach of human rights, anti-semitic attacks increase in the following months. Do you think that's a coincidence? This is the conflation of Jews and Israel that I've been consistently referring to.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends - Calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends doesn't bother me as a singular issue if its specifically done to promote peace talks. You have to talk with your enemies sometimes. It's the consistency of him being associated with these types of groups over the years that cannot just be dismissed as Jezza doing his usual campaigning for world peace:


So a whole load of nothing basically. Thanks.
Naz Shah - anti-Israel/anti-Zionism
Ken Livingstone - Anti-Zionism.
Labour club article states specifically that 'no institutional racism was found but that individual members had been involved in antisemitic activity (nonspecified) outside the club'.

It's like you read the headlines, or subheaders, and didn't bother to read the body of the articles at all.
'The consistency of Jez being associated with these groups cannot be dismissed as Jezza doing his usual campaigning for world peace' why? Is there a limit to how many negotiations someone can be in before they're suddenly bosom buddies with the guys they're negotiating with? I don't understand your reasoning.

You've got jackshit. Almost everything you linked is people who are against the actions of Israel in regards to the Palestinian people expressing their displeasure with the Jewish state.
This nonsese about Ken Livingstone saying that Jews started voting more to the right after gaining money. They did. It's a simple fact. He also included Roman Catholics in the same sentence. He was demonstrating how demographics that gain money tend to start voting more conservatively.Honestly... these are the best examples that article could come up with over the 30 year career of a minister who has been staunchly anti Israeli expansion for it's entirety?

Antisemitism my arse. These accusations are nothing but an attempt to stifle complaints about the Israeli state's vile actions.
Frankly sick of it tbh. It's like calling someone racist against germans for criticising the Nazis. If that had been the climate then then a fuckton more would have died in the holocaust.
Yea - I went there. Guess I'm an antisemite too now. Fucking ridiculous horseshit.
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Mar 27 2018 04:32pm
Quote (Scaly @ 27 Sep 2017 17:54)
I am fine with being a bigot.


Quote (Scaly @ 27 Mar 2018 18:24)
So a whole load of nothing basically. Thanks.
Naz Shah - anti-Israel/anti-Zionism
Ken Livingstone - Anti-Zionism.
Labour club article states specifically that 'no institutional racism was found but that individual members had been involved in antisemitic activity (nonspecified) outside the club'.

It's like you read the headlines, or subheaders, and didn't bother to read the body of the articles at all.
'The consistency of Jez being associated with these groups cannot be dismissed as Jezza doing his usual campaigning for world peace' why? Is there a limit to how many negotiations someone can be in before they're suddenly bosom buddies with the guys they're negotiating with? I don't understand your reasoning.

You've got jackshit. Almost everything you linked is people who are against the actions of Israel in regards to the Palestinian people expressing their displeasure with the Jewish state.
This nonsese about Ken Livingstone saying that Jews started voting more to the right after gaining money. They did. It's a simple fact. He also included Roman Catholics in the same sentence. He was demonstrating how demographics that gain money tend to start voting more conservatively.Honestly... these are the best examples that article could come up with over the 30 year career of a minister who has been staunchly anti Israeli expansion for it's entirety?

Antisemitism my arse. These accusations are nothing but an attempt to stifle complaints about the Israeli state's vile actions.
Frankly sick of it tbh. It's like calling someone racist against germans for criticising the Nazis. If that had been the climate then then a fuckton more would have died in the holocaust.
Yea - I went there. Guess I'm an antisemite too now. Fucking ridiculous horseshit.


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Mar 27 2018 04:41pm
Quote (Scaly @ Mar 27 2018 11:24pm)
So a whole load of nothing basically. Thanks.
Naz Shah - anti-Israel/anti-Zionism
Ken Livingstone - Anti-Zionism.
Labour club article states specifically that 'no institutional racism was found but that individual members had been involved in antisemitic activity (nonspecified) outside the club'.

It's like you read the headlines, or subheaders, and didn't bother to read the body of the articles at all.
'The consistency of Jez being associated with these groups cannot be dismissed as Jezza doing his usual campaigning for world peace' why? Is there a limit to how many negotiations someone can be in before they're suddenly bosom buddies with the guys they're negotiating with? I don't understand your reasoning.

You've got jackshit. Almost everything you linked is people who are against the actions of Israel in regards to the Palestinian people expressing their displeasure with the Jewish state.
This nonsese about Ken Livingstone saying that Jews started voting more to the right after gaining money. They did. It's a simple fact. He also included Roman Catholics in the same sentence. He was demonstrating how demographics that gain money tend to start voting more conservatively.Honestly... these are the best examples that article could come up with over the 30 year career of a minister who has been staunchly anti Israeli expansion for it's entirety?

Antisemitism my arse. These accusations are nothing but an attempt to stifle complaints about the Israeli state's vile actions.
Frankly sick of it tbh. It's like calling someone racist against germans for criticising the Nazis. If that had been the climate then then a fuckton more would have died in the holocaust.
Yea - I went there. Guess I'm an antisemite too now. Fucking ridiculous horseshit.


If they HDQ'd some jews live on tv and mounted their body parts on pikes in all four corners of the kingdom but caveated the broadcast with 'it was about zionism and israel', you'd believe it.

The Chakrabati report you love quoting is a joke considering Corbyn got her a peerage a few months after. How about a proper third party audit like those required at any private company instead of an internal investigation mired in corruption?

This post was edited by dro94 on Mar 27 2018 04:42pm
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Mar 27 2018 05:27pm
Quote (dro94 @ 27 Mar 2018 22:41)
If they HDQ'd some jews live on tv and mounted their body parts on pikes in all four corners of the kingdom but caveated the broadcast with 'it was about zionism and israel', you'd believe it.

The Chakrabati report you love quoting is a joke considering Corbyn got her a peerage a few months after. How about a proper third party audit like those required at any private company instead of an internal investigation mired in corruption?


Now you're being hyperbolic. I'm just looking for examples of labour MPs talking about worldwide Jewish conspiracies or denying the Holocaust happened or even straight up calling someone a Kike. I don't see any of that. What I see is people speaking out against Israel and being silenced under the guise of fighting antisemitism.

I haven't quoted the Chakrabati report as far as I can remember. I don't see why the party should undergo an audit when there is no serious evidence of antisemitism being endemic within it but sure. Why not? Would be a good way to put this shit to rest. Not that it'd be listened to tbh... I linked a study that was done on that subject earlier, by a Jewish organisation, and it's basically been ignored because it didn't fit with the 'Labour is antisemitic' narrative.



^ All right wing. Find me a Labour politician wearing an SS uniform or throwing a Nazi salute.
You can't. Because Labour is the party that is anti-racism and by calling out the racist state of Israel they are simply staying true to that ideal.

This post was edited by Scaly on Mar 27 2018 05:33pm
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Mar 29 2018 12:12am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43578225

Head of labour disputes panel resigns after 3 months in the job. Doh.
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Mar 29 2018 01:01am
Quote (WNxIrvine @ 29 Mar 2018 07:12)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43578225

Head of labour disputes panel resigns after 3 months in the job. Doh.


i prefer gay news from bbc, it's way better

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-40519865/a-gay-man-from-china-describes-his-struggle-coming-out
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Mar 29 2018 02:05am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Mar 29 2018 07:01am)


Thought cbeebies would be more your thing tbh.
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Mar 29 2018 06:17am
Quote (WNxIrvine @ Mar 29 2018 07:12am)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43578225

Head of labour disputes panel resigns after 3 months in the job. Doh.



It's just about the state of Israel! labour is anti racist!
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Mar 29 2018 06:46am
Quote (dro94 @ 29 Mar 2018 12:17)
It's just about the state of Israel! labour is anti racist!


They are. That's why he had his labour party membership suspended, pending investigation, and was blocked from running for election.
Still no MP's.

Labour is anti-Israel. That will undoubtedly attract antisemites. But Labour have done a fine job of keeping them out of office.
That's precisely why I asked for MPs and not rando members. Anyone can get a party membership. It's a basically anonymous online subscription.
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