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Mar 27 2018 12:14am
I think jezza is a very dangerous man, not only for the country as a whole, but for every business or person who wants to be successful. But let's be honest, he isn't an anti-semite. It's a decent narrative for bashing him, not just for the people in opposition parties, but for the more central folk in his own party who don't want him as leader.

I'd much prefer if instead of attacking him on a topic that a lot of people don't give a shite about, we tore down his ridiculous economic "policies".
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Mar 27 2018 06:07am
The far left are using criticism of Israel as a stick to beat all Jews with. It's the conflation of Jews and Zionism/Israel by the far left which is fuelling antisemitism in their ranks and if you can't see it then you're either deluded or engaging in a tribalistic defence akin to Trump supporters and their dear leader.
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Mar 27 2018 06:19am
meanwhile in the fact-based reality:

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Mar 27 2018 06:30am
I wonder if that singular poll was among Labour Party members and taken in the UK...doubt it. But even so:
'Some guys on the other side have been even more racist than us so don't bring up actual problems in the far left!!1!'
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Mar 27 2018 06:52am
Quote (dro94 @ Mar 27 2018 08:30am)
I wonder if that singular poll was among Labour Party members and taken in the UK...doubt it. But even so:
'Some guys on the other side have been even more racist than us so don't bring up actual problems in the far left!!1!'


While they asked which party respondents supported, they didnt isolate it, unlike other surveys.

Some interesting highlights:

12% of the 'very right wing' said they support labour.
'very right wing' made up just 1.4% of respondents.

94.6% didn't have an unfavorable view of jews when explicitly asked, putting them about on par with Hindus and significantly more positively viewed than muslims in the UK.

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the larger share of the far-left in the population of Great Britain means that the actual numbers of far-left and far-right antisemites are rather similar.


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The presence of antisemitic and anti-Israel attitudes is 2 to 4 times higher among Muslims compared to the general population

Unclear where or if they are counted on the left-right scale.

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empirically, all of the anti-Israel statements we tested are considered to be at least ‘probably antisemitic’ by a majority of UK Jews


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While 30% of British society hold at least one antisemitic attitude, to varying degrees, this emphatically does not mean that 30% of the population of Great Britain is antisemitic.
A majority of people who agreed with just one negative statement about Jews in this survey also agreed with one or more positive statements about Jews, suggesting that the existence of one antisemitic or stereotypical belief in a person’s thinking need not indicate a broader, deeper prejudice towards Jews.


an 'antisemitic attitude' is a certain response to any one of nine questions that were posed. 'tend to disagree' is sufficient for that label.
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Mar 27 2018 09:23am
Quote (dro94 @ 27 Mar 2018 12:07)
The far left are using criticism of Israel as a stick to beat all Jews with. It's the conflation of Jews and Zionism/Israel by the far left which is fuelling antisemitism in their ranks and if you can't see it then you're either deluded or engaging in a tribalistic defence akin to Trump supporters and their dear leader.


I can't see it. I think it's the conflation of Jews and Zionism/Israel by critics of the labour party and of Corbyn within the party that have lead to these charges.
But as I've said before - I'm willing to be proven wrong, I despise racism in all it's forms and if you can give me evidence of this 'widespread problem' then I'll happily join Labour/Corbyn critics in calling for action.

All I'm asking for is some examples of actual antisemitism from Labour MPs. I've asked several times now and you've refused, or been unable, to give any. You say I'm being deluded or tribalistic if I can;t see it - WELL FUCKING SHOW ME SOME.

This post was edited by Scaly on Mar 27 2018 09:31am
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Mar 27 2018 09:39am
Quote (Scaly @ Mar 27 2018 11:23am)
I can't see it. I think it's the conflation of Jews and Zionism/Israel by critics of the labour party and of Corbyn within the party that have lead to these charges.
But as I've said before - I'm willing to be proven wrong, I despise racism in all it's forms and if you can give me evidence of this 'widespread problem' then I'll happily join Labour/Corbyn critics in calling for action.

All I'm asking for is some examples of actual antisemitism from Labour MPs. I've asked several times now and you've refused, or been unable, to give any. You say I'm being deluded or tribalistic if I can;t see it - WELL FUCKING SHOW ME SOME.


He's not stupid enough to claim outright that he hates Jews. He dances around that notion and constantly stays on the edge. When he gets called out, he simply denies everything.
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Mar 27 2018 09:52am
Quote (bena2OO5 @ Mar 27 2018 09:39am)
He's not stupid enough to claim outright that he hates Jews. He dances around that notion and constantly stays on the edge. When he gets called out, he simply denies everything.


So.... he's a republican
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Mar 27 2018 10:06am
Quote (bena2OO5 @ 27 Mar 2018 15:39)
He's not stupid enough to claim outright that he hates Jews. He dances around that notion and constantly stays on the edge. When he gets called out, he simply denies everything.


So what you're saying is that he (Corbyn I assume) has not expressed any antisemitic views but you're a mind reader and know what he's thinking.
I assume this means that you can also read the minds of all the other party members and have uncovered enough antisemitic thoughts with your superhuman ESP to be able to claim that this is 'widespread' among them.

Thank fuck we have a psychic investigating. If we left it to what Labour MPs say and do we would never have uncovered this disgusting racism.

This post was edited by Scaly on Mar 27 2018 10:06am
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Mar 27 2018 11:01am
The more I research the more I become convinced that this accusation is just confusing criticism of Zionism and Israel with antisemitism.

On 'The Daily Politics' today the labour party conference was mentioned. This caused a small amount of consternation at the time as a 'fringe speaker' was apparently making antisemitic remarks and denying the holocaust. Here's a quote from the filthy antisemite -

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“Promoters of racist ideologies should not be given a public platform, and to me that does include people who promote Zionism – which is a racist ideology whose followers have committed and continue to commit crimes against the people of Palestine.

“If we are to do justice to the memory of the millions of victims of the Holocaust, Jewish and Roma and many, many others, then we must engage in robust debate and education about the causes of current, ongoing violence and injustice.”


So we can strike that instance off the list.

Earlier in the program David Baddiel, a British Jewish comedian, made reference to the comments of Ken Livingstone who had got into hot water by briefly mentioning as an illustration to another point entirely, in an interview with Vanessa Felts,, how the Zionist movement collaborated with Hitler prior to the second world war.

After being called out on it Ken had to clarify his comment. Here's what Ken had to say -

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Livingstone’s comments expanded on his claim that Hitler supported Zionism because the Nazi government signed the Haavara agreement, which facilitated the relocation of Jews to Palestine in 1933 before the Third Reich turned to mass murder and extermination. The agreement allowed a portion of Jewish emigrants’ possessions, which they were forced to hand over before they left Germany, to be re-claimed through transfers to Palestine as German export goods.

“He didn’t just sign the deal. The SS set up training camps so that German Jews who were going to go there could be trained to cope with a very different sort of country when they got there. When the Zionist movement asked, would the Nazi government stop a Jewish rabbi doing their sermons in Yiddish and make them do it in Hebrew, he agreed to that.

“He passed a law saying the Zionist flag and the swastika were the only flags that could be flown in Germany. An awful lot. Of course, they started selling Mauser pistols to the underground Jewish army. So you had right up until the start of the second world war real collaboration.”


Once again - not criticism of Jews but criticism of the Zionist movement AND actual historic FACT.

Whenever criticism of Zionism and the Israeli state is levelled it seems that cries of antisemitism are the automatic response. I am still yet to find an example of genuine antisemitism among Labour MPs and the failure of anyone in this thread, or on twitter, to provide me with any does little to sway my opinion that this is simply a means of defending Israel and Jewish settlers from criticism for their actions in regards to Palestine.
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