Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 23 2017 04:32am)

If we eliminated the government today it still wouldn't be a libertarian or free market situation because the power that was currently achieved was done under a government and will remain a major influence for hundreds of years.

The only way to get a free market is to wipe the slate clean.

Net neutrality being eliminated is a giant favor to the corporations currently running the system unless you also hit a larger reset button that erases the advantages they have received.

Advocating for a loss of net neutrality without also advocating for that larger button is just being a fake libertarian that sucks corporate dick.

Quote (majorblood @ Nov 23 2017 06:40am)

libertarian or free market doesn't mean wealth, power, or innate opportunity is equally distributed as these are fantasies not congruent with the human condition

Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 23 2017 04:48am)

I know, but you will never have an economy free of interference unless you eliminate all interference, past and future.

To do any less advantages one group over another artificially and isn't congruent with libertarian ideology.

If somebody cheats in a race you don't let the race continue as long as they stop cheating, you start the race over so the cheater loses his advantage. To do any less is favoring the cheater, or in this case the current powerful corporations who had Advantage from government interference

Quote (majorblood @ Nov 23 2017 06:56am)

you can't punish someone for something that happened before it was law, it's then ridiculous to have redistribute wealth, power, etc, that a company has earned through government influence if you change into a libertarian society. It would require breaking the NAP to even redistribute the wealth in the first place.
again, a libertarian society doesn't require equal starting ground as that's a preposterous idea in the first place that only communist ideologues can fester

a libertarian ideology most definitely discriminates groups over others, groups that are competent are more likely to be successful.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 23 2017 05:22am)

It's not punishing a cheater to restart the race. That's ridiculous. If they gained an advantage by a breaking of the NAP it's entirely consistent with Libertarian ideology to force them to give the advantage back.

Quote

The sentiment the ex post facto laws are against natural right is so strong in the United States, that few, if any, of the State constitutions have failed to proscribe them. The federal constitution indeed interdicts them in criminal cases only; but they are equally unjust in civil as in criminal cases, and the omission of a caution which would have been right, does not justify the doing what is wrong. Nor ought it to be presumed that the legislature meant to use a phrase in an unjustifiable sense, if by rules of construction it can be ever strained to what is just.

Quote (majorblood @ Nov 23 2017 07:40am)

you cannot "restart the race" without punishing ex post facto which isn't reasonable or necessary for a libertarian society.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 23 2017 06:25am)

It doesn't matter if it's ex post facto, that's just a silly red herring.

In order for a society to be truly Libertarian you need to remove all influences that resulted from the NAP, and part of that means that you punish violations of the NAP even when they happened in the past.

Quote (cambovenzi @ 23 Nov 2017 10:04)

Libertarianism does not at all require executing everyone, taking their possessions and starting from a totally equal material position. False premise>bad conclusion.

Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Nov 23 2017 06:28am)

dodge more

Quote (majorblood @ Nov 23 2017 08:28am)

wrong ideology, communism is that way