Quote (fender @ 7 Jun 2018 06:30)
ofc those cases are different in detail, and some even in their very nature - but that does not necessarily make analogies and comparisons invalid. that's but a lazy talking point. at least present us your 'catalonians are - despite their language, culture, history, national identity... - not unique enough to warrant even considering independence, so it's irrelevant that they don't have a realistic chance of self-determination' argument, because just suggesting it while at the same time accusing others of not putting in enough effort is kind of hypocritical.
the reality is, and that's what you guys constantly leave out while making that shallow '95% of them agreed, so it's totally fair and reasonable' point, that catalonia was economically and politically coerced to agree to the 1978 constitution because it was a vast improvement to the previous status. the dishonest and kind of sad part is that i know for a fact you're very well aware of that. some other people uncritically supporting the spanish side might be somewhat ignorant and uninformed, but you most definitely aren't - so please don't act like catalonians 40 years ago overwhelmingly (though with the 6th lowest turnout amongst the 17 regionsand significant irregularities concerning voter, both points conveniently ignored by your side) agreed to the constitution because they wanted to make sure they would never have a real chance to become an independent country.
so yes, if you just look at the independence issue (i'm not suggesting catalonians were or are overall screwed or unhappy with the constitution at all), spain managed to fineprint scam catalonians into agreeing to never be independent. however, and i already made that point multiple times, it's an outright lazy argument to say 'well, it's on a piece of paper, so if we want to uphold the rule of law and not descent into anarchy we must never change it.' if that were true we'd still live in feudal societies. it's really not difficult to see how the current state of affairs is very unsatisfying, not only for catalonians, but for everyone who values democracy and a people's right to choose their own destiny.
Really? After dozens of posts about the subject, where I adress the history, laws, society, demographics, etc of Spain in general and Catalonia, you are going to say I'm lazy. Not wanting to repeat things like a parrot doesn't make me lazy. I'm ok with clearing things up if one of my comments wasn't understood, or talking about new and different aspects of the subject, but I'm not going to go over and over the same things every time they are mentioned. It isn't my job to post here about this.
The turnout in Catalonia was the 6th lowest out of the 17 regions, but it still was above average. And like I've said before, the boycott against the constitution was carried out mostly by HB and the spanish francoist far-right. The majority of people in Catalonia boycotting it were immigrants from other parts of Spain, that feared that the catalan government would be given too much power and discriminate them. Keep in mind that the catalan government had just been re-instated, under Josep Tarradelles (from the left-wing separatist party ERC), who had been the president of the catalan government in exile. Even though he had sent a message of fraternity, always talking about the "citizens of Catalonia" and not "catalans" to include the immigrants from the rest of Spain, there were still strong suspicions about him among the non-catalan speaking citizens living in the region.
I will also remind you that the right wing catalan nationalist party CiU was given one of the 7 seats in the group that created the Constitution, and that all articles had to be unanimously approved. If they had wanted independence, then they could have just refused to be part of the constitutional process and boycott the constitution, like the left-wing pro-ETA basque party HB did. The basques turned out fine, so don't act like there was some sort of threat or fear in order to make the catalans vote yes.