Not sure if I agree there. If things slow down, the pressure will be on the brits as the clock keeps ticking. I think the EU has nothing to lose here tbh. Recent elections combined with Trumps antics have strengthened the EU, and a disorientated UK isn't something that should be a problem for them.

well, i follow your logic if your goal the worst possible deal for the brits. despite the denial of stubborn brexiteers, these elections have clearly weakened UK's negotiating position.
however, if by the end of may 2019 there is no withdrawal agreement, it would result in basically a COLD exit, the united kingdom will just not be a member of the EU anymore and therefore not subject to ANY of its treaties. again, this would certainly be most devastating for the brits themselves, putting most of the pressure during the negotiations on them, but it would also be damaging the EU economy as a whole.

and while i certainly understand the impulse to be somewhat petty and vindictive given their history of selfishness, arrogance, special treatment, and self-imposed isolation within the EU, i don't think this is the time and place for it. these talks should be reasonable adult politicians trying to find the best possible solution for both sides (after all this is not america), while respecting their people's wish to not longer be a member of the EU.

so i agree with your overall assessment, but i still think a relatively "simple" hard brexit deal (giving them back full control of their precious border when it comes to EU foreigners, and excluding them from the single market), negotiated with someone backed by a decisive popular mandate, would have been ideal.
you will see, not only the narrow majority she will hold forming a coalition with the ultra conservative northern irish dup, but also her complete refusal to acknowledge or even address how badly this backfired, will lead to significant political backlash and an invigorated opposition, further weakening her position. i would not be surprised if public perception in the uk would end up seeing her negotiating on behalf of a very conservative minority in the end...

I'd be very surprised if May continues to hold her position for very long. I don't think she could have fucked up any harder if she tried, and my suspicion is that there will be some back room meetings where she is essentially forced to resign.

thats what i wanted to post, the real chaos has just begun and i also think may has pulled a cameron 2.0



that would be nice, but looking at the rhetoric of leading people in the EU makes me think that they will try to make an example of the uk as a warning for other member states

well to be fair though, his biggest "accomplishment" was that his opponent was utter shite. sounds somewhat familiar too, doesn't it? so i don't know if celebrations are really in order. that being said though, much of the personal criticism against him was at least as misplaced, as the last couple of weeks have shown, so i guess i somewhat understand where he's coming from...

Oh, it has nothing to do with vengeance or the UK's attitude. More like deterrence towards other europhobic movements within the union.

But in any case, I agree there should be a negotiation and this shouldn't be about trying to come up with a bad deal for the UK, I wasn't trying to imply that. I think the EU should be strict and go for a hard brexit, but they should also try to work out agreements that benefit both parties... expats on both sides, the irish, etc are all issues that deserve a positive solution for both parties.

I suspect you're right, but I think that in doing so, the EU will suffer more damage over the long term than the UK will. I just don't see how the EU wins this.



Pretty much this. If the Conservatives hadn't decided to royally fuck themselves with the manifesto, we'd be having an entirely different conversation right now. Corbyn did absolutely nothing to gain support; it's entirely that the Conservatives LOST support.

i think a solid deal in our interest still DOES have to send a signal that the many advantages you have being a member come at a price, and that leaving the EU is not a decision you should take lightly, depending on how fed up you are with a specific current problem, assuming you could always get special conditions (or even an easy way back in) as long as you're big enough - we obviously SHOULD be interested in keeping this political union stable. of course that should not mean that we impose additional and uncalled for punishment and sanctions - again, it's a fine line to navigate.

could you provide some quotes of "leading EU people" that clearly crossed that line? i'm asking because without any actual proof of that, it just comes across as simple anti-EU rhetoric, something you haven't been a stranger to in the past but i don't want to outright dismiss it since i could very well imagine there would be such people within the EU - there are farages everywhere obviously. i'm just wondering if those are really as important and influential regarding these negotiations as you seem to assume...

to be more precise, eu politicians will try to be hard as possible policically, but in the end the economy will use their lobby guys and EU puppets and make a deal that will at least not affect trade as much

funniest thing i read was "die eiernde lady" (spiegel i think)...