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Jul 4 2017 05:24pm
Quote (dro94 @ Jul 4 2017 06:08pm)
If the US struck North Korea and they came out of it with an ounce of energy left, they'd raise SK to the ground. Too risky when considering NK can't launch an ICBM over 3000km, let alone miniaturise a warhead.


Here's a snippet of the article:

Quote
For all these reasons, acceptance is how the current crisis should and will most likely play out. No one is going to announce this policy. No president is going to openly acquiesce to Kim’s ownership of a nuclear-tipped ICBM, but just as George W. Bush quietly swallowed Pyongyang’s successful explosion of an atom bomb, and just as Barack Obama met North Korea’s subsequent nuclear tests and missile launches with strategic patience, Trump may well find himself living with something similar. If there were a tolerable alternative, it would long ago have been tried. Sabotage may continue to stall progress, but cannot stop it altogether. Draconian economic pressure, even with China’s help, is also unlikely to curb Pyongyang’s quest.


If Trump doesn't attack North Korea during his first term, it looks like we'll just have to accept a North Korea with nuclear weapons capable of hitting our country.
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Jul 4 2017 05:34pm
Quote (IceMage @ 4 Jul 2017 23:24)
Here's a snippet of the article:



If Trump doesn't attack North Korea during his first term, it looks like we'll just have to accept a North Korea with nuclear weapons capable of hitting our country.


I said this months ago and got laughed at. Nice to see you coming around to my side of the argument.
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Jul 4 2017 05:37pm
Quote (Scaly @ Jul 4 2017 06:34pm)
I said this months ago and got laughed at. Nice to see you coming around to my side of the argument.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day. :thumbsup:
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Jul 4 2017 05:38pm
Quote (IceMage @ 4 Jul 2017 23:37)
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. :thumbsup:


I'll take it.
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Jul 4 2017 06:01pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jul 5 2017 12:24am)
Here's a snippet of the article:



If Trump doesn't attack North Korea during his first term, it looks like we'll just have to accept a North Korea with nuclear weapons capable of hitting our country.


Yeah it's a tough one and there is merit to that argument considering the uncertainty involved, but without a doubt it would be a significant human rights abuse in terms of innocents killed.

Maybe I missed it in the article, but I think an important factor in the likelihood of NK using nuclear weapons is that it is a 3rd world country which relies heavily on military posturing for its propaganda. Like Russia, they promote hatred of the West to direct attention away from the glaring failures of their own countries, so the pursuit of nuclear weapons helps to consolidate power internally and give their citizens a sense of pride. That is the main objective of the nuclear weapons program, not destroying the US, in my opinion.
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Jul 4 2017 06:17pm
Quote (dro94 @ Jul 4 2017 07:01pm)
Yeah it's a tough one and there is merit to that argument considering the uncertainty involved, but without a doubt it would be a significant human rights abuse in terms of innocents killed.

Maybe I missed it in the article, but I think an important factor in the likelihood of NK using nuclear weapons is that it is a 3rd world country which relies heavily on military posturing for its propaganda. Like Russia, they promote hatred of the West to direct attention away from the glaring failures of their own countries, so the pursuit of nuclear weapons helps to consolidate power internally and give their citizens a sense of pride. That is the main objective of the nuclear weapons program, not destroying the US, in my opinion.


Quote
In short, North Korea is a problem with no solution … except time.

True, time works in favor of Kim getting what he wants. Every test, successful or not, brings him closer to building his prized weapons. When he has nuclear ICBMs, North Korea will have a more potent and lethal strike capability against the United States and its allies, but no chance of destroying America, or winning a war, and therefore no better chance of avoiding the inevitable consequence of launching a nuke: national suicide. Kim may end up trapped in the circular logic of his strategy. He seeks to avoid destruction by building a weapon that, if used, assures his destruction.

His regime thrives on crisis. Perhaps when he feels safe enough with his arsenal, he might turn to more-sensible goals, like building the North Korean economy, opening trade, and ending its decades of extreme isolation. All of these are the very things that create the framework needed for disarmament.

But acceptance, while the right choice, is yet another bad one. With such missiles, Kim might feel emboldened to move on South Korea. Would the U.S. sacrifice Los Angeles to save Seoul? The same calculation drove the U.K. and France to develop their own nuclear weapons during the Cold War. Trump has already suggested that South Korea and Japan might want to consider building nuclear programs. In this way, acceptance could lead to more nuclear-armed states and ever greater chances that one will use the weapons.

With his arsenal, Kim may well become an even more destabilizing force in the region. There is a good chance that he would try to negotiate from strength with Seoul and Washington, forging some kind of confederation with the South that leads to the removal of U.S. forces from the peninsula. If talks were to resume, Trump had better enter them with his eyes open, because Kim, who sees himself as the divinely inspired heir to leadership of all the Korean people, is not likely to be satisfied with only his half of the peninsula.


Similar to Iran's nuclear ambitions, it's little about the worst case scenario, and more about moves in the future after the country has nukes.
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Jul 4 2017 06:50pm
all the saber rattling is annoying... just start the war already!
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Jul 4 2017 06:55pm
I keep hearing explosions outside, nk's latest test must of been successful and #FakeNews is covering it up. Shame!
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Jul 4 2017 07:02pm
Quote (IceMage @ 5 Jul 2017 01:24)
Here's a snippet of the article:



If Trump doesn't attack North Korea during his first term, it looks like we'll just have to accept a North Korea with nuclear weapons capable of hitting our country.


It's the most likely outcome, because it's best one (or least damaging) to the US.

Attacking NK before they master ICBMs would still cause millions of lives, millions of dollars and probably a long guerrilla and biochemical war, followed by an even longer process of national stabilization, reconstruction and civilian relocation.

Attacking once they have the technology to strike the US would be even worse, as it would result in millions of american civilians dying from a nuclear attack.

Waiting poses few risks for the US. NK isn't stupid enough to start a war against the US, because they know they'd only be able to take out a few cities at most before their country is completely razed in a counterstrike. Perhaps NK's ICMBs might deter the US from getting involved in a new possible Korean War, effectively leaving SK screwed, but you know "America First... tough luck South Korea". America's industrial rivals of Samsung, Daewoo, Hyundai, etc probably won't lose sleep over their competition disappearing either. I mean, with this waiting policy there's the chance that NK will never do anything reckless towards SK (so nothing will be lost), and if they do start a new Korean War then the US would have a reason to stay out of it (saving millions of lives outside the peninsula, but completely condemning the millions of south koreans to a dictatorship... it's an awful gamble, but the US has done worse).

I agree that the best way out would be for SK to develop their own set of nukes. It's the only way to balance the peninsula and make sure there will be no war.

This post was edited by zarkadon on Jul 4 2017 07:02pm
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Jul 4 2017 10:06pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

In 2013 NK bought EMP technology from russia.

Advantage:
- radius is thousands miles.
- explode at high altitude, avoiding anti-missiles.






Quote (Tuna_BeIIy @ 5 Jul 2017 01:55)
I keep hearing explosions outside, nk's latest test must of been successful and #FakeNews is covering it up. Shame!

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