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Nov 26 2016 07:07pm
I want to preface all of this to say that this is a very personal position. I have a family member who is dependent on marijuana, and it is deteriorating his ability to function and enjoy life. The core of my argument is that people need to have reasonable, grounded views of how the drug affects people. This idealistic view of, "It's totally fine. In fact, it's amazing and harmless", is harmful to those who are at risk of developing dependency. Wine tastings, and beer tastings, are primarily there to TASTE the product. Marijuana, on the other hand, goes straight to one thing always: "What kind of high does it give you?"

I have seen too many arguments in favour of legalization. I want to preface by stating that I am in favour of legalization, but I am against many of the arguments made to support that position. Just recently, "Adam Ruins Everything" released a video on YouTube about how harmless marijuana is. The premise of the show is that they debunk myths, and expose the hidden truths behind long misunderstood subjects. Here are some of the things he said:
- Marijuana has killed ZERO people
- Marijuana has ZERO negative long-term side-effects in adults
- Marijuana is not addictive at all
- Marijuana is totally safe

I am in my mid-late twenties. I have tried marijuana I think about 7 times in my life. I decided that it wasn't for me; it wasn't better than alcohol, and it gave me a brain fog for at least 24 hours after. Marijuana made me much less safe to drive, since my senses were less accurate in my feet. I also became more paranoid, altering what I would look at while driving.

A reminder again: I think marijuana should be legalized. But, here are my problems with the four above points I am contending.

1) Marijuana has killed ZERO people
An ignorant person could say "Marijuana isn't what kills you. It's how you choose to consume (smoke) it that can." It's a fact that most people smoke Marijuana. Smoke. As in, mouth, throat, and lung cancer. I can guarantee you that the number of people who have died of cancer as a result of their marijuana smoking habits is not zero. Lung infections, and other health problems, are also real. Further, how many car accidents may have been caused by marijuana? The main issue is cancer from smoking. But, to say it hasn't killed people is just ignorant.

2)Marijuana has ZERO negative long-term side-effects in adults
I can't accept this as true. My brother is a great example of someone who is experiencing massive long-term side effects from self medication with marijuana. I have spoken with a family member who runs a prominent mental health clinic in the US, who is a doctor, and he says that the first two steps to recovery for many of his patients is: To get off marijuana, and to start accepting help. Those are the first two critical steps. While marijuana is largely fine for most people, there are marijuana addicts just like there are alcoholics.

3)Marijuana is not addictive at all
I think I already covered that above. Dependency is addiction.

4)Marijuana is totally safe
I think I already covered this all above, but to add to the point: Coca leaves are totally safe too. Many people concentrate marijuana / THC / whatever, and process it into different forms. An example is hash. Another example is weed oil. Another example is any kind of weed butter, cooked into food. Excessive consumption can put someone in a very unsafe state. Further, the addictive qualities are enhanced significantly when taking in such a strong, processed way.

I think coca leaves should be legal too, so that's my position. Not cocaine. So where I sit on my position about marijuana is strange... as soon as you start processing it (putting it in food), there's a lot of debate to be had about legal concentration levels.

This post was edited by Canadian_Man on Nov 26 2016 07:14pm
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Nov 26 2016 07:14pm
Weed isn't "totally" safe. It has some health risks, but it is very safe as far as recreational drugs go.

Here's a few videos from an HIV researcher summarizing the current scientific literature on marijuana use and safety.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyVghncmfCiZJf5IPiWaQ2kvY3yTbNFTv
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Nov 26 2016 07:15pm
some people can handle shit some can't
some benefit from shit and some don't

it's dumb to criminalize it and it's dumb to make the arguments that you have listed

let the people figure out for themselves which should and shouldn't do it and offer support for those that would like to get off of it if they can't themselves
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Nov 26 2016 07:18pm
Pros of legalization and removing it as a schedule 1 drug outweigh keeping it illegal.

The fact of the schedule 1 classification of the drug makes it harder to have research done on it.

Research that has been done has shown it to have less harmful side effects than alcohol and tobacco though. There are certainly risks, but there's risks with many drugs. Marijuana does not meet the criteria as a schedule 1 narcotic/drug.

Currently, we are imprisoning and criminalizing a sizable amount of the population over a non violent offense and one that has far less negative impact than tobacco or alcohol.

This post was edited by sir_lance_bb on Nov 26 2016 07:19pm
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Nov 26 2016 07:19pm
Quote (sir_lance_bb @ Nov 26 2016 06:18pm)
Pros of legalization and removing it as a schedule 1 drug outweigh keeping it illegal.

The fact of the schedule 1 classification of the drug makes it have harder research to be done on it.

All research that has been done has shown it to have less harmful side effects than alcohol and tobacco though. There are certainly risks, but there's risks with many drugs. Marijuana does not meet the criteria as a schedule 1 narcotic/drug.

Currently, we are imprisoning and criminalizing a sizable amount of the population over a non violent offense and one that has far less negative impact than tobacco or alcohol.


I want to reiterate that I am in support of legalization. I am against those who want to keep it illegal.

My position, and point of this thread, is that I am also against those who ignorantly support marijuana... who push propaganda about how great it is (or how harmless it is).

This post was edited by Canadian_Man on Nov 26 2016 07:20pm
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Nov 26 2016 07:22pm
Quote (Canadian_Man @ Nov 26 2016 06:19pm)
I want to reiterate that I am in support of legalization. I am against those who want to keep it illegal.

My position, and point of this thread, is that I am also against those who ignorantly support marijuana... who push propaganda from the side of support FOR it.


stoners have been their own worst enemy just like the worst of any group usually are

for a long time the advocates were all silly stoner types that politicians didn't want to go anywhere near

there are more educated and less silly advocates now
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Nov 26 2016 08:41pm
You can legalize marijuana or you can have a welfare state. You CANT have both.
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Nov 26 2016 08:43pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 26 2016 07:41pm)
You can legalize marijuana or you can have a welfare state. You CANT have both.


????

Another weed supporter who doesn't read and just spews out "BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA".
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Nov 26 2016 08:50pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 26 2016 08:14pm)
Weed isn't "totally" safe. It has some health risks, but it is very safe as far as recreational drugs go.

Here's a few videos from an HIV researcher summarizing the current scientific literature on marijuana use and safety.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyVghncmfCiZJf5IPiWaQ2kvY3yTbNFTv


C0nc0rdance is one of my favorite YouTubers, his cannabis videos are brilliant.
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Nov 26 2016 09:25pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 26 2016 09:41pm)
You can legalize marijuana or you can have a welfare state. You CANT have both.


well you might be assured to know that when this was posited, Florida (a shady kickback from testing centers to politicians ) decided to test this very premise, and welfare users were far less than the general population.


Quote
https://thinkprogress.org/what-7-states-discovered-after-spending-more-than-1-million-drug-testing-welfare-recipients-c346e0b4305d#.6hupkdmfm
As state legislatures convene across the country, proposals keep cropping up to drug test applicants to the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program, or welfare. Bills have been introduced so far in Montana, Texas, and West Virginia, with a handful of others also considering such a move. Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) has gone further, proposing to drug test applicants for food stamps and unemployment benefits. They follow recent bills put into action in Maine, Michigan, and Mississippi.
Proponents of these bills claim they will save money by getting drug users off the dole and thus reduce spending on benefits. But states that are looking at bills of their own may want to consider the fact that the drug testing programs that are already up and running haven’t seen such results.
According to state data gathered by ThinkProgress, the seven states with existing programs — Arizona, Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Utah — are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to ferret out very few drug users. The statistics show that applicants actually test positive at a lower rate than the drug use of the general population. The national drug use rate is 9.4 percent. In these states, however, the rate of positive drug tests to total welfare applicants ranges from 0.002 percent to 8.3 percent, but all except one have a rate below 1 percent. Meanwhile, they’ve collectively spent nearly $1 million on the effort, and millions more may have to be spent in coming years......found that it didn’t produce any reliable estimates of drug use among welfare recipients.


Quote
Less than one half of one percent of Tennesseeans who applied for public assistance flunked a drug test in the first six months of the state’s experiment with drug screenings for welfare recipients, according to recently released state figures.
Out of more than 16,000 applicants from the beginning of July through the end of 2014, just 37 tested positive for illegal drug use. While that amounts to roughly 13 percent of the 279 applicants who the state decided to test based on their answers to a written questionnaire about drug use, the overall rate among applicants is just 0.2 percent.
Such an infinitesimal rate of drug use among welfare applicants contrasts sharply with the state’s overall 8 percent rate of drug use. Across the country, states that implement drug tests for low-income families have found that economically vulnerable people are less likely than the general population to use drugs. Utah spent $30,000 on tests that caught just 12 drug users, for a positive rate of 0.2 percent of total benefits recipients, compared to 6 percent of all state residents who use drugs. Before a judge ruled Florida’s drug testing system was illegal, it had turned up a drug use rate of just 2 percent among public assistance users, compared to 8 percent of its total population.




It's about to be legal here, its awaiting election certification and despite public sentiment being in favor of it passing here, winning the vote, the prohibitionists want to blow half a million dollars on a pointless recount.

This post was edited by Master_Zappy on Nov 26 2016 09:31pm
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