It is a logical fallacy to think that a person more directly involved with certain actions has more to say about whether everyone else should feel this action benefited them or not.

My point is not that I want to reach consensus or not about whether veterans defend Americans' freedom. My point is that every individual has the right to make up their mind for themselves regarding this matter, and to express their opinion if they wish to do so. I was not saying that one opinion is correct and the other is incorrect, I was not offering my own opinion on it, and I was not asking for anyone else's specific opinion.

Furthermore, I did not imply that Skinned was pushing his opinion down anyone's throat. All I said is that, just like my opinion doesn't matter in regards to everyone's right to have their own personal opinion, his opinion doesn't either. The fact that he is more closely involved changes nothing about that.

Its not a logical fallacy because that's not what i meant, what i meant was that someone who is involved in both sides of an issue in many cases has a more valid viewpoint that someone who's stance inherently makes them more biased. Of course its not always true but Skinned has shown he's fairly objective and learned in both viewpoints at play in this issue.

You're right that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and it is my opinion that regardless of your opinion when someone with a more diverse opinion speaks you should listen with an open opinion because opinions change, you're allowed to disagree or agree with that based on your opinion. In fact your entitled to have unchanging opinions if in your opinion the opinion you're listening to isn't in your opinion worthy of listening to.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 23 2016 07:59am

Viewpoints can't be valid or invalid when they concern someone's perception. A viewpoint is what it is; if a person's viewpoint leads them to have the perception that X is wrong, then they have the perception that X is wrong and they have every right to voice that perception. So yes, it is absolutely a logical fallacy because it is an appeal to authority in a situation where authority is not relevant.

Indeed, listening to others' opinions can be useful, and we can all learn from each other. However, when we are talking about each individual's right to defend their opinions, what relevance can one person's personal opinion possibly bear? This thread is not about which opinion is the universally correct one -- it is about whether or not Kaepernick should have kept this opinion to himself or not.

Viewpoints normally can't be valid or invalid. What if i raised a child to only drink mountain dew without ever telling or showing them what water is then told them Mt Dew runs through their veins? Some viewpoints are based on a flawed perspective, and are wrong based on the false data that person perceived as true. Granted that's not the case here as something such as nationalistic pride isn't entirely personal, but i was making a point beyond the topic at hand. Unless you're saying facts don't matter in terms of perspective, which is in practice true but insofar as bettering society and moral obligations matters for informing the uninformed. That's my opinion.

As to the second, following your logic it would seem to me that the entire thread is pointless, yet by applying our own perspectives to Kaep's motivations meaningful dialogue can still be had. Plus we have no reason to explicitly take Kaep at his word, i personally still feel there's a chance he is doing this as a power move to stay relevant or that he chose this time, right before he leaves the NFL, as a time to protest because the timing suits him if penalties are a result. I don't think either if true entirely forms his opinion but i like dissecting motivations sometimes. In short, sure our perspective may not mean much to Kaep, but that doesn't mean discussing our perspectives or questioning his perspective and motivation are fruitless discussions.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 23 2016 08:14am

For each and every sentence in this post, I would like you to take a moment and reconsider whether it adds anything to the conversation that is being had in this thread.

Thank you.

Of all the people in this subforum I perhaps care least of all for "hijacking" topics and staying on course. If i see something i wish to discuss I'll discuss it, in whatever thread i please.

And following your logic, if im understanding you correctly and as i said above, it seems there isn't much discussion to be had given that Kaep's protest is entirely personal, if you're not willing to spin into the territory of our perspectives and how Kaep's protest makes us feel. I suppose i should have responded to your with a so as to keep the meaningful dialogue on a mostly polarized topic going.

Absolutely correct. The topic is about whether Kaep has the right to express this opinion by sitting down during the anthem, and whether or not he should be expressing his opinion like this.

It is not about whether his opinion is correct or stems from a wrong viewpoint. And as I said, Skinned as a veteran may or may not agree with Kaep's opinion, but that changes nothing about Kaep's right to express the opinion.

So in short, as is his right to kneel the first portion is not a fruitful discussion. We're in america where his right to kneel should always be protected legally despite your opinion on it. And by your definition the latter should is also a fruitless conversation. So why again are you worried about my segway detracting from the conversation if the above two prove there is no meaningful discussion to be had. For the record i dont even care i just see these as conflicting.

I both agree and disagree with the second. If Kaep's protest is legitimate he would seek out more learned opinions, such as the opinions of black service members. Which is entirely what he did and the reason he switched from sitting on the bench to kneeling during the anthem as his form of protest. In that sense Kaep agrees with me, and not you, that other more diverse opinions are an important part of his protest.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 23 2016 08:33am