Prove the existence of a soul or even offer sufficient evidence to suggest it's existence may be anything other than extremely unlikely and then maybe it'll be taken into consideration within serious discussions.

Of course you'll have to come up with a definition for it first.

i do honestly think a universal healthcare system would have its flaws. its not an issue im really invested in though, and i acknowledge its entirely the correct thing to do from a moral standpoint. I think if we could actually get a laid out plan on how if will work and specifics on tax increases a lot of people will come aboard. When people see people they know getting reduced to 39 hours to avoid benefits or a large increase in their benefit costs like we have with Obamacare that's going to scare a lot of people. Even though Universal would elminate the concern for hours reduction it wont ease people's minds on the cost. I have yet to hear a candidate stand up and say "don't worry guys it will cost everyone ___% increase in your taxes."

obamacare wasn't universal healthcare?

countries with universal healthcare haven't exactly gone bankrupt and are able to provide high quality healthcare at lower prices despite only having a fraction of the wealth of the states so you know it can be done

most of the cost would be to insurance/pharma/hospitals as they'd be the biggest losers if everyone had greater access to healthcare at lower costs

didn't you have an uncle with medical problems? or was it something else i'm thinking of

This post was edited by duffman316 on May 20 2016 12:05pm

I agree on the whole, but i dont think there is a direct comparison out there. No country with universal healthcare has the income inequality issues we have nor the population and population of the poor. Does this mean it cant work? no of course not, but does it mean the comparisons arent perfect predictors of what will happen? imo yes.

i agree the hospitals have the most to lose, but the middle class likely has a good portion to lose as well. we will get hit hte hardest i would guess.

yes that was me with the uncle, but not super on topic. He had a liver disease and declined being put on the donor list initially and then right before he died regretted it big time. But he was rich as fuck and had top notch healthcare. Likely would have gotten the liver if he put in for it at first. Scary thing for a kid to see his uncle act brave in the face of death, to give someone younger a liver hopefully, then shrivel in fear of death at the end.

...in the natural man the soul is recognized as our consciousness , our awareness of life and self . It drives our will to live and to create and to learn and to love and to be loved .

Of course you tried to bring up the idea of the religious soul to stir up some of your usual bullshit but the concept of the secular soul is well known to anyone who has taken Intro to Philosophy .

Healthcare right now is dictated by insurance companies. What a physician can or can't prescribe is completely up to them. Often times you have to go to the 3rd best drug you would use just when treating something as simple as outpatient blood pressure. Tests that you want have to performed often require prior authorization (PA) from the patient's respective insurance company. Who signs off on that PA? A physician that is very rarely of the same specialty of the physician requesting the test in the first place. For example an OBG doc can say no to your brain MRI that a neurologist thinks is necessary, and then you would have to appeal that PA decision. It's just a stupid system. I am in favor of any system that improves this.

This post was edited by Bazi on May 20 2016 12:26pm

Advocacy!

You're the one who can change it all.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 20 2016 12:40pm

idk how much power individual doctors have anymore. maybe if there was some sort of doctor's union but nothing like that exists and i'm opposed to the idea of a doctor's union anyway. i think patients should get mad because ultimately it's their time that's being wasted and convey those complaints to appropriate "leaders"

Lol in that case you shouldn't even go to a hospital ever. Support yourself, learn how to do everything yourself to be truly self-supportive.



I made a post on page 2? Talking about this.

Basically it has to do with doctor availability. If you need care, you get it, no waiting on prior-authorizations from insurance, etc.
To be honest, there will be less waiting time under a Universal healthcare system for a lot of people.



Exactly one big difference is instead of pharmacies trying to find the cheapest drug to buy, a single payer healthcare system will force the drug manufacturers to lower their prices and be the source that pharmacies get their drugs from. Rather than them running up the prices, greedy fawks.

You want to save the people who can benefit society the most. Would you save the neurosurgeon or the drug dealer? Would you save a child or the person who is 95 years old? To me, these are easy choices to make. At the end of the day, we do not have the resources to treat every single person for every disease out there. That's why you have lines in socialist countries. As I said, I'm not opposed to universal healthcare, but we have to be realistic about who we can treat. I'm perfectly ok with the so-called "death panels" which are doctors who try to figure out if you're worth treating.

I would allow the rich to "cut in line" because it's effectively a tax increase on them. If they are putting more into the system, they should get certain benefits (such as being bumped up on the organ transplant list).