it's hard to ask this to muricans, considering how high are their health prices/costs, how inequal is their income, and how individual based is their culture !
nb: sry english

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on May 20 2016 02:15am

I had/have cancer, i have full health insurance, i used the public system here to beat it because i couldn't be bothered with the paperwork and i ended up still getting the best oncologist in the country.
In my experience universal health care is a must.

I was severely injured and needed spinal surgury...by some twist of fate I was in Germany instead of the United States. Got superior health care, built in physical therapy, and recovered in the hospital for three weeks afterward, before they released me when I felt ready.

In the US I could have been wheeled in, sedated, woken up, and sent home on the say day or next day. I would still be in debt almost twenty years later. I would have gotta health care that was inferior as the for profit system nickled and dimed me into oblivion while doing their best not to actually provide the services I've paid for in a health plan.

Not as bad as the minor surgery I had at the Veterans hospital here. That time I woke up from the anesthetic alone and naked in a freezing room with an open wound on my wrist where the pins were sticking out and I wrapped and dressed myself before stumbling out of the operating room and driving myself home. Nobody has ever said anything about it...no "where did you go" or anything. Everybody just left and forgot me, and when I went missing, if anybody noticed, nobody bothered to call and look, or notify my family, etc. I showed up a couple months later and a guy in the office pulled my pins out with a fucking leatherman multitool.

I would take the high quality European health care over the fast food quality American health care and the negligent VA health care any day. Any intelligent person would.

It's a silly metric when you interpret it as a metric, indeed.

Can you tell me why it's preferable for person X to die before person Y? Everybody has the right to live, and that's an unconditional and purely individual right. Your right to live is not based on how much you contribute to the economy. There isn't even a way to quantify that, let alone to quantify how much you contribute to society in general.

To me its about money out of my pocket. I haven't personally been to the doctor in over 12 years, even for a flu or cold. So will the raise in taxes be more or less than my healthcare plan?

Well a year ago id guess the tax increase would have been less than my plan, i paid around 350$ for a solo plan per month with no dental and shitty copays. Now im on the wifeys govt plan which costs 100$ a month, includes dental and has almost no copays.

I guess if its even close of a tax of 100$ a month to pay for it id be all for it. If i have to go back to paying a massive chunk of my check to pay for it then fuck that. We're always hearing how out sytem costs too much and universal will help in some ways, prove it to my wallet and you can do whatever u like.

The world doesn't revolve around you. I understand that America has a very individualistic history from the pioneers onward (self-reliance and self-improvement being such huge pillars), but from most metrics we see that for the nation as a whole universal healthcare is cheaper. Sure, some people might end up paying more for some time because they're young and have no medical issues. But in 30 years that could be very different, and by then these people might be glad the system works the way it does.

Yes, absolutely. I think health care is a right. There are many details to work out after that, but I think our society should agree that health care should be accessible and affordable to everyone and then go forward from there.

The problem is, we haven't always agreed on this. The ACA was an (imperfect) step forward. A fair percentage of Americans believe that health care is not a right. I think we need to straighten out more of our philosophy on this subject before we can move forward. Basically, we need to get Republicans on board with the concept that every person has the right to healthcare and should have access to affordable medical care. But how can we do this? Many red states slash Medicare benefits year after year.

Personally, I advocate for a single-payer health care system. The wealthy countries that employ this system have better health care outcomes than us and spend way less money on healthcare. Obviously, there are a lot of economic and cultural factors at play here, but I think the US could also benefit from a single-payer health care system.



Well said.



Interesting idea. Something like this seems feasible.





Anectdotal but certainly puts things in perspective. The US desperately needs to improve the affordability and access to quality health care. As I mentioned above, I think a single-payer health care system is one idea.

I guess.I have to be the outlier here and say I'm not in favor , despite it would be advantageous for me personally.

I'd go as far as saying the system we have now is already state intervened far to heavily as it is, and being consistent with my view that tax is theft.

There is no such thing as free and state provided, and mentioning the system we have now is not an example of free markets.

Compare your vet bill to a medical one, that's a closer example.

Camb has some good posts on the subject if your looking for a well flushed out argument from a Libertarian perspective.

Americans should model it's healthcare like the vet.
https://www.libertariannews.org/2012/05/14/america-should-model-its-health-care-market-after-pet-care/


This post was edited by Master_Zappy on May 20 2016 10:05am

...something rarely if ever mentioned in topics like this is how much incentive we strip from the soul with handouts like universal health care and the resulting loss of dignity that is found in being self-supporting .

I'm convinced there isn't enough of the population that cares and is capable of having shame or values a days hard work along with delayed gratification.