d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > The True Face Of Capitalism
Prev13456710Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 9,412
Joined: Nov 18 2009
Gold: 20.00
Apr 3 2014 01:00pm
Quote (Vivienne @ Apr 2 2014 06:07am)


The problem here is obviously our government system, not capitalism.

The judge (a government official) solely made the ruling that would decide the Dupont heir's fate.

This post was edited by PixileDust on Apr 3 2014 01:03pm
Member
Posts: 40,833
Joined: Sep 17 2011
Gold: 0.00
Apr 3 2014 03:47pm
Quote (Historic @ 3 Apr 2014 18:09)
If everyone has same wealth how do gauge who working hard enough or not? what happens to GDP when no one works hard or if people who do work hard aren't more successful because of it.


The problem is that society values money more than anything else. You've just proved it. What's wrong with respect, job satisfaction, a sense of achievement?
Member
Posts: 53,433
Joined: Mar 6 2008
Gold: 7,525.35
Apr 3 2014 04:40pm
Quote (Ylem122 @ Apr 3 2014 09:09am)
wealth inequality and capitalisim becomes a problem when the capitalists dont take the effort to constantly give back to society in a variety of ways.

id like to see an extra tax placed on the rich and buisnesses, id like to see these taxes go to a fund headed by a group of publicly elected individuals who in order to be elected must be in the braket that pays this tax. this group of individuals would make 100% transparent decisions on what to do with the funds, abiding to a seperation of church and state, how the funds are used do not have to agreed upon by any other government entity.  sure there are alot of finite details, like who gets paid, where the funds for that come from, and how the elections run along with how recall elections work.

Still all in all i dont think the idea of the rich and high revenue buisnesses paying an extra tax which goes to a fund headed by elected rich individuals that pay this tax where they can use this fund to invest in 100% transparent acts of giving back to the nation is all in all a bad idea.

mainly though because i came up with it.

This reminded me of one of my favorite authors.

Quote
"Give back to the community" is a phrase used to implore people who have been successful in business to donate their time, talent, and treasure to some cause besides their business. There is no arguing with the injunction to serve others, but there is a problem with the phrase "give back." It implies that people with money have taken something from others. But presuming that the businessperson has been successful through enterprise, their wealth comes not from taking but from cooperating with willing buyers.


Let's see how this works: When you need milk in a hurry, you dash to the convenience store and pick up a carton. You put it on the counter and the clerk says what you owe. At that moment, there is a calculation made. The clerk determines that he (or the person who employs him) values $2.50 more than the milk. You, on the other hand, determined that you value the milk more than the $2.50 you have been asked to pay for it. You exchange, and voila — you are both better off as a result.

You have done a service to the convenience store, and the convenience store has done a service for you. The store is richer in money, and you are richer in goods. What do the two parties to the exchange owe each other afterwards? Nothing. What does justice demand? That they keep the bargain, and nothing else. The milk can't sour. The check can't bounce. Nothing else is required or asked. Now, if the store clerk is sick and needs help, or the customer is poor and needs shelter, that's another matter. But what is asked in this case is completely unconnected from the results of the economic exchange.

Expand this logic more broadly, and we can see that it applies to all people who make money, even vast amounts. Even the richest person, provided the riches comes from mutually beneficial exchange, does not need to give anything "back" to the community, because this person took nothing out of the community. Indeed, the reverse is true: Enterprises give to the community. Their owners take huge risks, and front the money for investment, precisely with the goal of serving others. Their riches are signs that they have achieved their aims.


-Jeffrey A Tucker

http://mises.org/daily/2962/Does-Money-Taint-Everything

As you can see they already give quite a bit to society through voluntary mutually beneficial exchange.
As a group they are responsible for most of the tax burden and much of the charitable giving as well.
The witch hunt to further punish and deride "rich people" is extremely counterproductive and a bit of a farce.
Member
Posts: 53,433
Joined: Mar 6 2008
Gold: 7,525.35
Apr 3 2014 04:42pm
Quote (Vivienne @ Apr 3 2014 05:47pm)
The problem is that society values money more than anything else. You've  just proved  it. What's wrong with respect, job satisfaction, a sense of  achievement?


People want nice stuff. This doesnt mean people dont like respect or job satisfaction or sense of achievement.
Do you hate people and want them to live in squalor? Or is nice stuff good for people on the whole?
How do we make more nice stuff for people? Communism? HELL NO!
We need economic calculation!
Member
Posts: 10,461
Joined: May 31 2011
Gold: 1,382.83
Apr 3 2014 04:55pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Apr 3 2014 06:42pm)
People want nice stuff. This doesnt mean people dont like respect or job satisfaction or sense of achievement.
Do you hate people and want them to live in squalor? Or is nice stuff good for people on the whole?
How do we make more nice stuff for people? Communism? HELL NO!
We need economic calculation!


Too much stuff
Too many people
Iso communism
Member
Posts: 10,665
Joined: Apr 23 2009
Gold: 129.89
Apr 3 2014 05:17pm
is the corrupt judge fired yet? or has any action been taken since this ridiculous news
Member
Posts: 51,928
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,933.00
Apr 3 2014 05:27pm
The true face of capitalism: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303978304579475860515021286?mod=hp_opinion&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303978304579475860515021286.html%3Fmod%3Dhp_opinion

Quote
By Charles G. Koch


I have devoted most of my life to understanding the principles that enable people to improve their lives. It is those principles—the principles of a free society—that have shaped my life, my family, our company and America itself.

Unfortunately, the fundamental concepts of dignity, respect, equality before the law and personal freedom are under attack by the nation's own government. That's why, if we want to restore a free society and create greater well-being and opportunity for all Americans, we have no choice but to fight for those principles. I have been doing so for more than 50 years, primarily through educational efforts. It was only in the past decade that I realized the need to also engage in the political process.

A truly free society is based on a vision of respect for people and what they value. In a truly free society, any business that disrespects its customers will fail, and deserves to do so. The same should be true of any government that disrespects its citizens. The central belief and fatal conceit of the current administration is that you are incapable of running your own life, but those in power are capable of running it for you. This is the essence of big government and collectivism.

More than 200 years ago, Thomas Jefferson warned that this could happen. "The natural progress of things," Jefferson wrote, "is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." He knew that no government could possibly run citizens' lives for the better. The more government tries to control, the greater the disaster, as shown by the current health-care debacle. Collectivists (those who stand for government control of the means of production and how people live their lives) promise heaven but deliver hell. For them, the promised end justifies the means.

Instead of encouraging free and open debate, collectivists strive to discredit and intimidate opponents. They engage in character assassination. (I should know, as the almost daily target of their attacks.) This is the approach that Arthur Schopenhauer described in the 19th century, that Saul Alinsky famously advocated in the 20th, and that so many despots have infamously practiced. Such tactics are the antithesis of what is required for a free society—and a telltale sign that the collectivists do not have good answers.

Rather than try to understand my vision for a free society or accurately report the facts about Koch Industries, our critics would have you believe we're "un-American" and trying to "rig the system," that we're against "environmental protection" or eager to "end workplace safety standards." These falsehoods remind me of the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan's observation, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Here are some facts about my philosophy and our company:

Koch companies employ 60,000 Americans, who make many thousands of products that Americans want and need. According to government figures, our employees and the 143,000 additional American jobs they support generate nearly $11.7 billion in compensation and benefits. About one-third of our U.S.-based employees are union members.

Koch employees have earned well over 700 awards for environmental, health and safety excellence since 2009, many of them from the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration. EPA officials have commended us for our "commitment to a cleaner environment" and called us "a model for other companies."

Our refineries have consistently ranked among the best in the nation for low per-barrel emissions. In 2012, our Total Case Incident Rate (an important safety measure) was 67% better than a Bureau of Labor Statistics average for peer industries. Even so, we have never rested on our laurels. We believe there is always room for innovation and improvement.

Far from trying to rig the system, I have spent decades opposing cronyism and all political favors, including mandates, subsidies and protective tariffs—even when we benefit from them. I believe that cronyism is nothing more than welfare for the rich and powerful, and should be abolished.

Koch Industries was the only major producer in the ethanol industry to argue for the demise of the ethanol tax credit in 2011. That government handout (which cost taxpayers billions) needlessly drove up food and fuel prices as well as other costs for consumers—many of whom were poor or otherwise disadvantaged. Now the mandate needs to go, so that consumers and the marketplace are the ones who decide the future of ethanol.

Instead of fostering a system that enables people to help themselves, America is now saddled with a system that destroys value, raises costs, hinders innovation and relegates millions of citizens to a life of poverty, dependency and hopelessness. This is what happens when elected officials believe that people's lives are better run by politicians and regulators than by the people themselves. Those in power fail to see that more government means less liberty, and liberty is the essence of what it means to be American. Love of liberty is the American ideal.

If more businesses (and elected officials) were to embrace a vision of creating real value for people in a principled way, our nation would be far better off—not just today, but for generations to come. I'm dedicated to fighting for that vision. I'm convinced most Americans believe it's worth fighting for, too.


Mr. Koch is chairman and CEO of Koch Industries.


OMG a KOCH BRO!!!11!!!!!
Member
Posts: 14,659
Joined: Jan 27 2007
Gold: 78.16
Apr 3 2014 05:29pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 4 2014 02:21am)


:lol:

Member
Posts: 65,046
Joined: Jul 7 2008
Gold: Locked
Apr 3 2014 06:27pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 3 2014 04:27pm)


Wouldn't be good corruption if they couldn't fabricate simple shit like that, ofc.
Member
Posts: 48,563
Joined: Jun 18 2006
Gold: 5,016.77
Apr 3 2014 06:59pm
Quote (BardOfXiix @ Apr 3 2014 07:27pm)
Wouldn't be good corruption if they couldn't fabricate simple shit like that, ofc.


Sort of like the hate against the Koch brothers.... completely fabricated.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev13456710Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll