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Jul 28 2008 07:28pm
Quote (bnrhodes2 @ Mon, Jul 28 2008, 08:26pm)
this isnt my topic...not sure how ur technique is but any technique can always use improvemtn...but try doing high pulls, front squats and shoulders raises (not where u put ur arms straight out, as in when u pull the bar up towards ur chin and ur elbows near ur ears)...those usually help to break through barriers..lmk how it goes


I'm already doing front squats, and I used to do high pulls when getting down my form.
I don't have the perfect form, but it's manageable.

It's almost as if I plateau'd...
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Jul 28 2008 07:30pm
do high pulls with more weight than what u use with ur cleans...i was told that is how they should be done but idk for sure...try and put ur hips into the clean as much as u can though almost like humping the bar...that helps with the explosiveness needed to move that weight i believe...how much weight are u doing?
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Jul 28 2008 07:31pm
Quote (bnrhodes2 @ Mon, Jul 28 2008, 08:30pm)
do high pulls with more weight than what u use with ur cleans...i was told that is how they should be done but idk for sure...try and put ur hips into the clean as much as u can though almost like humping the bar...that helps with the explosiveness needed to move that weight i believe...how much weight are u doing?


I'm 148 lbs, doing 160, 4reps,3reps,2 reps (3 sets).

Quote (Elysia @ Mon, Jul 28 2008, 08:33pm)
I weigh 145lbs, and my max bench is 215. Im 18. Is that good for my weight? or am i weak?


: /
215 lb bench at 145lbs is not weak.

Quote (bnrhodes2 @ Mon, Jul 28 2008, 08:36pm)
so try adding like 10-20lbs to ur max when u do high pulls...u dont have to rack it...just get used to moving the heavier weight


I'll give it a try. Thanks for your help ;]

This post was edited by Bail on Jul 28 2008 07:37pm
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Jul 28 2008 07:33pm
I weigh 145lbs, and my max bench is 215. Im 18. Is that good for my weight? or am i weak?
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Jul 28 2008 07:36pm
so try adding like 10-20lbs to ur max when u do high pulls...u dont have to rack it...just get used to moving the heavier weight
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Jul 28 2008 08:00pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Tue, 29 Jul 2008, 02:07)
Hey there -

My_Lesson, I think you misunderstood what we said. We were saying that the "studies" that are done under controlled conditions are merely alleged studies performed in order to prove a point. The results can be manipulated in order to favor one side or another. The major point of this is that experience trumps studies of all kinds. The best way to find out if stretching or anything else for that matter are effective is to talk to guys at the gym who have been working out for years and years and know what works. Speak to athletes, bodybuilders, chiropractors, medical doctors, and personal trainers...virtually everyone will agree that by personal opinion - light stretching before and after a vigorous weight-lifting workout will yield better pump, larger range of motion, as well as greater strength gains over a period of time - which a lesser propensity for injury.

I'm not arguing that the studies are incorrect, but rather saying that its best to go by what works for YOUR body...vs the bodies of those people who participated in the studies. Don't forget, studies are not perfect...especially those that study the human body which differs so greatly between each of us. Another example would be creatine - for some people its extremely effective for gaining muscle size and strength, other people say they have absolutely no change between using creatine and not.

All in all, I'd say let personal experience, and the advice of those who have personal experience be your guide. Studies may be a good baseline, but in general do not reflect the actuality for everyone =)


Hello hello biggrin.gif

I get your point but I think you also missed my.
It's very easy to manipulate a study, but as I said you got to make a own opinion about it from your general impression of it, where it came from, how the study was made, who participate in the study, how they wrote the conclusions and much more. It's not that hard to make your own opinion how believeable the study is after reading it and looked up where it was publicated.
If you read a "study" made by a supplement industy that claims something hyped about this new supplement - You won't rate it as high as if some known doctor wrote a study and publicated it in a big sportsmed magazine.

You make your own conclusion about the subject efter reading studies, comparing them with your own experience, comparing to what that big gym rat said and so on.
But studies are very important, it is harder for you as a single person without or with very little to compare with and without the high tech measurement techniques.

About the creatine example. The studies showed that creatine generally worked as it was suppose to. The studies also showed that a smaller group didn't respond to creatine at all. I think you wrote this example to compare to the stretching studies. The stretching studies showed that it didn't have any effect on muscle soreness or decreased chance of injury at all.

About the stretching matter. I can tell you that I do stretch, but not becouse of the benefits you said but just that it feels good.
In the biggest fitness and body building forum in my country are they are pretty much agreed on that stretching does not lower the chance of getting injured or has any impact on muscle soreness. Theres alot of athletes, bodybuilders, chiropractors, medical doctors, and personal trainer there. And they have many studies to show about it too.
Stretching is a pretty hot topic at the moment really.
I've read alot of studies about this matter becouse it interests me, and my conclusion from those and personal experience is that these statements are false.
Couldn't you try to find those stuides that contradicted what I've said, would really much like to read them.
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Jul 28 2008 08:12pm
Quote (My_Lesson @ Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:00pm)
Hello hello biggrin.gif

I get your point but I think you also missed my.
It's very easy to manipulate a study, but as I said you got to make a own opinion about it from your general impression of it, where it came from, how the study was made, who participate in the study, how they wrote the conclusions and much more. It's not that hard to make your own opinion how believeable the study is after reading it and looked up where it was publicated.
If you read a "study" made by a supplement industy that claims something hyped about this new supplement - You won't rate it as high as if some known doctor wrote a study and publicated it in a big sportsmed magazine.

You make your own conclusion about the subject efter reading studies, comparing them with your own experience, comparing to what that big gym rat said and so on.
But studies are very important, it is harder for you as a single person without or with very little to compare with and without the high tech measurement techniques.

About the creatine example. The studies showed that creatine generally worked as it was suppose to. The studies also showed that a smaller group didn't respond to creatine at all. I think you wrote this example to compare to the stretching studies. The stretching studies showed that it didn't have any effect on muscle soreness or decreased chance of injury at all.

About the stretching matter. I can tell you that I do stretch, but not becouse of the benefits you said but just that it feels good.
In the biggest fitness and body building forum in my country are they are pretty much agreed on that stretching does not lower the chance of getting injured or has any impact on muscle soreness. Theres alot of athletes, bodybuilders, chiropractors, medical doctors, and personal trainer there. And they have many studies to show about it too.
Stretching is a pretty hot topic at the moment really.
I've read alot of studies about this matter becouse it interests me, and my conclusion from those and personal experience is that these statements are false.
Couldn't you try to find those stuides that contradicted what I've said, would really much like to read them.




your point is noted!

as for studies that contradict the stated...you can go here and find literally hundreds of articles and studies involving the necessity for stretching as an injury preventative and strength enhancer - http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/stretch.htm

hope that helps!
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Jul 28 2008 08:16pm
Quote (Bail @ Mon, Jul 28 2008, 09:28pm)
I'm already doing front squats, and I used to do high pulls when getting down my form.
I don't have the perfect form, but it's manageable.

It's almost as if I plateau'd...



Hey there -

the single best way to get CLEANS up higher is to recreate the exact same motion using a smith machine, much heavier weight, and a spotter in front of the bar to assist you when your muscle begin to fail. just re-creating the action over and over will gradually yield a stronger CLEAN. The only way to break through the wall is to do the negative method as I mentioned. Do not use the incline smith machine...only the absolutely straight one - calculate that smith machines only use about 15lbs of resistance on the bar instead of 45. If your cleans are at 160 lbs, put 185 (85 on each side +15 lb bar) on the bar and use a spotter to rep out negative failure reps. If at all possible, also try to do some more barbell military presses, dumbell cleans, and front raises - all of these should help.

Also, if you hit a total wall, take a 1 week break, and come back to it...you might be surprised ;-)
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Jul 28 2008 11:17pm
Currently 5'11 205 lbs 17 (18 in a few months tongue.gif)


300 bench
470 dead lift
450 squat

^^ looking to get these up

Looking to bulk without gaining much fat, i believe im around 9% body fat



I am looking for a 1-2 hour workout routine/diet to help me with my goals


Looking to achieve around 215-220 within 3-4 months if possible

This post was edited by donieb7 on Jul 28 2008 11:17pm
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Jul 29 2008 12:24am
Quote (donieb7 @ Tue, Jul 29 2008, 01:17am)
Currently 5'11 205 lbs 17 (18 in a few months tongue.gif)


300 bench
470 dead lift
450 squat

^^ looking to get these up

Looking to bulk without gaining much fat, i believe im around 9% body fat



I am looking for a 1-2 hour workout routine/diet to help me with my goals


Looking to achieve around 215-220 within 3-4 months if possible




Hey there - first of all, if you are 9% bodyfat, and you want to bulk...you will be ending up around 15% body fat before you begin a cut. To bulk and cut fat are antagonistic...and done at opposite times of the year. So if you wish to achieve 215-220 lbs in 3-4 months without gaining fat...there is no feasible option. However, if you want to be 220 shredded in 1 year, it can be done. You must do an 8 month pig bulk...that means eat everything and anything and lift like an absolute monster. Continue this until you feel like you're going to die, and keep going. Take all the supps u can get ur hands on. Finally at the end of 8 months (u should have gained about 40 lbs ++) you should go on a good 3-4 month cutting cycle which will result in (hopefully) 210-220 at 4-6% bodyfat.

also the workout plan would have to be doing nothing but power exercises (1-6 reps or redic high weight on basic exercises like bench, deadlift, clean+jerk, squats, etc)

Come back and talk to me about a cutting routine after you bulk if you are interested! hope that helps

-SKCRaynor.

This post was edited by SKCRaynor on Jul 29 2008 12:26am
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