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Apr 16 2018 05:49am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Apr 16 2018 07:22am)
Why would you need to own the land?


:wacko:
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Apr 16 2018 05:49am
Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 16 2018 06:40am)
As if I need to be defended by a military. No one's out to get me -- I don't have the resources to warrant the effort. Furthermore, if everyone lived this way, and a foreign invader attacked, they would group in a militia and voluntarily devote resources to their own defense. No state-sanctioned military is needed.


How do you feel about living on native American land acquired via violation of the nap
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Apr 16 2018 05:54am
Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 16 2018 06:26am)
All land has some owner of record. If you move onto someone else's land, eventually someone's going to try to kick you off. If you defend yourself, they'll send more men and kill or imprison you.

By the way, property taxes have not always existed in this country. Like income tax, they were created and expanded well after this country's founding. So the original social contract has been significantly amended without any semblance of universal consent.


That sounds like a social contract. Property is a right and not a freedom. If people were free that would be no property just possessions.


Quote (EndlessSky @ Apr 16 2018 06:49am)
:wacko:


Well it's a have cake or eat cake thing not have both.

This post was edited by Skinned on Apr 16 2018 05:55am
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Apr 16 2018 05:54am
Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 16 2018 05:40am)
As if I need to be defended by a military. No one's out to get me -- I don't have the resources to warrant the effort. Furthermore, if everyone lived this way, and a foreign invader attacked, they would group in a militia and voluntarily devote resources to their own defense. No state-sanctioned military is needed.

Are you familiar with tyranny of the majority; or the right of citizens to withdraw their obligation to obey their government when government takes their natural rights (regardless of what means they use to do so) as prescribed by John Locke?


Yeah, thise native americans were really able to defend themselves from the European powers. They rose up and defended their territory from getting annexed.

And a bunch of people working independently of each other are going to build anti tank ordinencee.

You have a very naive and short sighted view. You should learn more history because a formal military anexing your shit is pretty unstoppable by any means other than another formal military.

If you want to withdraw consent then actually do it don't just pussy around while still gaining all benefits of the society you "aren't consenting to".

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Apr 16 2018 05:57am
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Apr 16 2018 05:55am
Its possible to pay for roads... while also not paying through income tax for Social Security... The obtuse strawman just makes you look desperate
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Apr 16 2018 05:57am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Apr 16 2018 10:49pm)
:wacko:


There is a guy up in north queensland here in australia who has lived in a shack in a national park for 46 years, he has never owned the land nor has he needed to, i doubt the government is even aware he is there, all the locals know him because he comes into town now and then to trade.
If anything land ownership is a loss of freedom for everyone else.

This post was edited by Plaguefear on Apr 16 2018 05:58am
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Apr 16 2018 05:57am
Quote (duffman316 @ Apr 16 2018 05:49am)
How do you feel about living on native American land acquired via violation of the nap



Well considering it's an intra-state not inter-state concept, it's not violated. Also, I don't believe it's some innate law of nature or anything.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 16 2018 05:54am)
Yeah, thise native americans were really able to defend themselves from the European powers. They rose up and defended their territory from getting annexed.

And a bunch of people working independently of each other are going to build anti tank ordinencee.

You have a very naive and short sighted view. You should learn more history because a formal military anexing your shit is pretty unstoppable by any means other than another formal military.


Tell that to every group of people that have successfully revolted against their government. Historically, a formal military can be formed at a moment's notice, especially if the public already owns arms.



This post was edited by FGdumpster on Apr 16 2018 06:00am
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Apr 16 2018 06:03am
Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 16 2018 10:57pm)
Well considering it's an intra-state not inter-state concept, it's not violated. Also, I don't believe it's some innate law of nature or anything.



Tell that to every group of people that have successfully revolted against their government. Historically, a formal military can be formed at a moment's notice, especially if the public already owns arms.


Historically i could not carpet bomb a seven mile radius off the map with one plane.
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Apr 16 2018 06:04am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Apr 16 2018 06:55am)
Its possible to pay for roads... while also not paying through income tax for Social Security... The obtuse strawman just makes you look desperate


People pay for their own Social Security. Workers pay 1/2 and the employer pays the other half from money that the worker makes for them.


Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 16 2018 06:57am)
Well considering it's an intra-state not inter-state concept, it's not violated. Also, I don't believe it's some innate law of nature or anything.



Tell that to every group of people that have successfully revolted against their government. Historically, a formal military can be formed at a moment's notice, especially if the public already owns arms.


That worked until the invention of professional armies.

I used to drive a tank and no neighborhood militia is going to fuck with one of those.

This post was edited by Skinned on Apr 16 2018 06:05am
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Apr 16 2018 06:04am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Apr 16 2018 05:57am)
If anything land ownership is a loss of freedom for everyone else.



I think some socialists are really anarchists at heart. I don't understand why their answer to tyranny by many capitalist entities is to increase that tyranny by letting the state monopolize all capitalist surplus.

The better answer is its complete abolition.


They forget that capitalism only exists by virtue of private property. Private property exists only by the decree of the state. Essentially, corporations own their property unless my gun is bigger than the state's.

Tyranny by capitalism is tyranny by the state. If you ever find yourself in eviction court being removed from your home for failure to pay your mortgage, you'll remember that.

This post was edited by FGdumpster on Apr 16 2018 06:12am
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