Quote (Voyaging @ Dec 11 2016 05:47am)

Irony.

Quote (ampoo @ 11 Dec 2016 02:47)

yeah, a law abiding and working student who tries to point out wrongdoings in our society really makes this country a worse place....makes sense

its not like i expected anything else than your own bigotry, a complete dodge and your typical accusations
i didnt judge entire groups, how many fucking times do i need to say that, its overrepresentation i am talking about

i asked you what your "solution" is, you are talking about "facts" and fail to provide anything
what is your solution when people open their newspapers daily and will most likely find something like this

"woman randomly attacked by a group of men (insert random location, public bathhouse etc)"
"arab gangs on the move (insert random western german city district)"
"random violence in a subway station at night"
"police officers attacked by a mob of 50 men after traffic control"
"housebreaking continue to be at an all time high"

i am trying to bring actual ongoings from the streets in here, everything i named here has happened hundreds of times and i will say it again, you wont find many natives among the culprits
that is a fact

these kinds of problems are completely new, so there might be certain migrant groups that have a MUCH bigger chance of providing trouble for our society
and we are not talking about japanese or chinese people here

what are you doing? calling people names, nice job, but its not new that the people pointing out the mess are the bad guys and not those who caused it

"Im übrigen gilt ja hier derjenige, der auf den Schmutz hinweist, für viel gefährlicher als der, der den Schmutz macht." quote from kurt tucholsky

Quote (JahovahWitness @ Dec 11 2016 04:49am)

I beg your pardon? :D ;) XD

Quote (fender @ 11 Dec 2016 11:23)

ah, the good old "das wird man ja noch mal sagen dürfen" defense - such a lazy and dishonest excuse. stop playing the victim card, you're just dead wrong. nobody criticises you for pointing out problems and nobody says you are "much more dangerous" than those thugs who assault / rob / rape people - nice strawman, buddy.
no, what i'm criticising you for is that you judge a whole group of people for the actions of some individuals without even knowing if this guy even belongs to this group of people! do you really no see how ridiculous that is? your hate towards migrants in general makes you forget such basic rules - i always thought you consider yourself a "scientist"? so please don't cry me a river about me "calling you names" - your behaviour is just textbook bigotry, how can you even dispute that?

also, you still haven't managed to provide ANY facts or stats to support your claims. some of which, btw, i wouldn't even outright refuse to accept. i can very well imagine that it's true that a majority of those random acts of violence are committed by a minority of people and i also would agree if you made the point that our justice system and our police don't have the tools to deal with this in a way that deters such acts efficiently and deals with the culprits appropriately - but i will not just claim it is a FACT without any objective source, this topic is so emotionally loaded, it's simply retarded to make such claims.

since you really seem to have trouble understanding why i think that you and your kind are dangerous, let me elaborate: as a fellow law abiding member of our society, i DO see the problems and i think about possible solutions and how we as citizens can make our politicians understand this. but i know that your right wing hate rhetoric does NOT contribute to finding solutions, it just makes people more angry and radical and unreasonable - on ALL sides! just look at yourself and your comments when it comes to anything migrant / refugee related.
again, this hateful attitude will more likely than not PREVENT meaningful changes because reasonable and intelligent people will NEVER vote for a party that embraces bigots and racists - even though they do address issues that desperately need to be addressed. so what will happen is that the afd will win a huge chunk of votes of frustrated, racist, and nationalistic people and it will make another grand coalition basically inevitable - and you know where any idea of meaningful change goes with those - great fucking job!

Quote (ampoo @ 11 Dec 2016 15:57)

"the good old "das wird man ja noch mal sagen dürfen" defense - such a lazy and dishonest excuse"
you sound like our leftist media, i dont need any defenses or excuses for anything

its funny how you accuse me of hating all migrants, i have migrant ancestry myself, and i have grown up in a town with a large asian migrant group, mainly japanese and vietnamese
nobody had ever any trouble here, actually we can learn a lot from them ourselves :lol:
i havent heard of asians committing mass sexual assaults or founding street gangs compared to our muslim friends, have you?

can you back up your claim that the new afd party is openly embracing racists, etc, etc?
this claim is made again and again, but actually the party consists of normal citizens who have lost their political home, former members of all parties have gathered there
i know they have questionable people like this höcke guy :lol: , but they are certainly a small minority

this party is completely new, so obviously you have all kinds of people and you cant deny that some idiots have joined them of course
the leaders position themselves against ultra nationalists, meanwhile our green party embraces drug dealers and pedophiles.....and nobody seems to care

there would be no need for the AFD to exist, IF merkel would not have turned a conservative party into a left wing party getting applause from the disgusting greens
years ago even the social democratic party with people like helmut schmidt warned about mass migration (you can look it up) and i think we both know that he is not a racist

the whole political class has made a radical jerk to the left and this is the response

so on this nice sunday you convinced me to dig a bit and here it is
this is not even CLOSE to what i could post

lets start with our prison population
http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/mehr-gefangene-als-haftplaetze-auslaenderanteil-nimmt-zu-gefaengnisse-in-baden-wuerttemberg-sind-uebervoll_id_5881871.html
44,6% of all prisoners in the state of baden-württemberg are migrants with an unknown number of the rest with german passport, but migrant descent
an increase by over 7% in only 2 years

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/haelfte-aller-taschendiebe-aus-nordafrika-14004579.html
half of all pickpocket crimes are committed by northern africans, and thats not including the other groups infamous for stealing purses (mainly romanians)
so how many of these crimes are committed by natives? there arent many left to be honest so approximately two third of all pickpockets could disappear if we would send criminal foreigners away....

http://www.bild.de/regional/dresden/gewalt/169-sexualstraftaten-durch-zuwanderer-49085760.bild.html#fromWall (sorry for quoting them)
in saxony, 46% of ALL registered northern african migrants have committed crimes, the number of sex crimes in the entire has increased from 25 (2013) to 169!!!!

these numbers are absolutely unbelievable, sorry that i cant appreciate the other half of these people.....

some recent stuff from my precious hamburg
there are 5 news this sunday on the police press portal and 3 of them are related to migrant crime, how convienient
http://www.presseportal.de/blaulicht/pm/6337/3507939 sex attack in hamburgs most well known night life area, could have been my own sister, who was there partying last night....leaves an even more bitter taste in my mouth
http://www.presseportal.de/blaulicht/pm/6337/3507896 afghan drug dealers arrested
http://www.presseportal.de/blaulicht/pm/6337/3507833 brutal market robbery, culprits with firearms and described as young migrants

thats just one day

and here a more lengthy article on how our streets are sliding into chaos
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9229/germany-lawlessness
i know that gatestone is a disputed american think tank, but they are referring to our own media here....its worth a look

you are mixing cause and effect up here, its not what you call right wing rhetoric that makes people more unreasonable and radical, its our political class and media with their denial of problems in this country and not the other way around
actio=reactio is not only a principle in physics, but also in society and our politicians are still suprised that an ultra left migration policy results in a right wing counter reaction, just how stupid are they

gotta agree though, that a grand coalition will most likely happen and they will also most likely do absolutely nothing which will contribute to even more escalation of the situation
confrontation is almost unevitable at this point

and you can believe me, i dont like that one bit

Quote (fender @ 11 Dec 2016 19:26)

you are the perfect example actually for how the afd embraces bigots: a guy who pretends to be a "scientist" but judges a whole group of people for the actions of an individual without even knowing which group he belongs to. people who say such obviously racist stuff were at least hiding their disgusting opinions years ago. nowadays it's just normal and they have a huge community of people who tell them there's nothing wrong or bad about making such statements because it's just "telling the truth" that the evil "lügenpresse" won't tell us. so i guess wild speculations, generalisations, and judging whole communities is just "telling it like it is" amongst you lot - just like "the green party embraces pedophiles and drug dealers" bs is just a fact for you that you uncritically accept and somehow it justifies bigotry...

höcke is not the only questionable character in the afd btw, there are plenty of (ex-)nazis, anti-semites, islam haters in the party and i'm pretty sure you know that. not only amongst the supporters, but prominent figures, some in leading positions even: poggenburg, hohmann, neumann... i'm sure with some research you can find dozens of former NPD and Republikaner members within the party and the party itself already has a history of cooperating with the NPD - so please spare me the "just normal concerned citizens bs". i would say just read what those "normal" afd members write in comment sections and facebook feeds on the internet and you'll see - but given your own contributions it's likely you won't even realise how ridiculous it is because you're obviously one of them...

also, i appreciate the effort you made to provide some facts for the things i explicitly said i wouldn't even dispute (i won't click BILD links though, i don't disable my adblocker for that garbage and single incidents from one day in hamburg hardly provide a reliable or representative statistic - but i get what you're trying to say and i wouldn't even be surprised if the actual numbers WERE close to it). the more interesting stats, however, would have been those who back up the claims i strongly disagreed on and called you out for. like the 99.9999% of random violence committed by migrants claim that somehow justified you judging a whole group of ppl without even knowing ANY facts about the actual criminals...

and please stop acting like bigotry, nationalism, and racism are reasonable counter reactions - understandable amongst the intellectually lazy and stupid? sure, but the only possible way to respond to it? most certainly not. i know many people like myself who are very unhappy with merkel's immigration policy and the respectless way many migrants treat our values, our society and those who live in it, our laws and those who enforce them - those are legitimate concerns that HAVE to be addressed but you don't see me siding with those right wing assholes who can't and won't distinguish between individuals and groups, between thugs and refugees, between muslims and radical islamists...
and it does fill me with great concern that people like you exist. people who maybe even have the intellectual capacity to do so but are just too frustrated and too lazy and rather spread the disgusting shit you're spreading here. i'm telling you - that'll achieve the exact opposite of what you want. with so many people joining the nationalists, the established parties will continue their soft course. the only "hope" for reasonable solutions would have been a strong CSU candidate able to communicate a meaningful policy change imo...

Quote (ampoo @ 11 Dec 2016 21:32)

so you dont even bother, as expected
nothing but bullshit accusations about me being racist, so quoting facts about prison population etc is racism?
i admitted that all kinds of people have joined the afd and of course npd guys trying to get into the mainstream, but they will fall out eventually
and what i said about the green party is perfectly true, you DO know guys like volker beck and cohn-bendit? who are not the only ones by the way
the bullshit is coming from you here

so when almost 50% of an ethnic group are criminals, these people are judging themselves :lol: what do i have to do with that
when a group produces such ridiculous numbers, does that not make you question the whole lot?

i am perfectly willing to distunguish between individuals and groups, but such a group, that does not have any asylum claim in the first place, has to leave our country, end of story

and i am also willing to distinguish between muslims and radicals, but what am i reading today?
a so called prime example for integration, sawsan chebli (working for the social democrats) is roaming politics and openly says that the sharia is perfectly acceptable....what an unbelievable and disgusting statement
yes, that makes me question certain things and it makes me question those muslims who do not clearly position themselves against the archaic sharia

i never said that nationalism and racism are the right response, you missed my point
extreme leftist migration policy will lure extreme right guys out of their holes, it has always been like that, weimar republic comes to mind

please stop playing the intelligence card, i am not pretending to be anything, you dont know me and you dont have the slightest idea
you try so hard to pretending to be the reasonable guy while copying the leftist standard procedure to flame the people who disagree with them

so i am asking one last time, what is your "reasonable" solution? i dont see how its not reasonable to send illegals away, if necessary by force
australia comes to mind here, by your definition they have to be the most racist and bigot country around right now

i wish the CSU would be available for voting outside of bavaria....

Quote (fender @ Dec 11 2016 09:50pm)

learn to read: i don't bother with BILD and for the other sources i thanked you for putting in the effort although i never disputed the facts. still no facts concerning the claims you made that i DID reject, however... wonder if you'll ever reply to that...

also, didn't i tell you to stop making that bs excuse? i'm not calling just anyone i disagree with or anyone who quotes actual facts a racist - it's extremely dishonest and intellectually lazy of you to say that.
WHAT i'm calling you a bigot and a racist for are the actual racist statements you make! like assuming someone is a migrant without ANY proof because he committed a crime, saying 99,9999% of random violence is committed by migrants... THOSE kind of statements.

so typical for you right wingers to pretend you're the victims and people antagonise you just because you have a different "opinion", the oldest trick in the book and you really think ppl don't see what you're doing there?
can you really not distinguish between opinions on the one hand, and racist prejudice and generalisations on the other hand? that's disappointing, even for you.

i bet you don't even see the hypocrisy in claiming the green party "embraces pedophiles and drug dealers" (both plural) when in fact both of them were heavily criticised within the party itself (cohn-bendit for that ominous passage in a book that was published in 1975 - believe me if he had been convicted of any ACTUAL crimes related to pedophilia, he'd be out of politics; beck for his statement and his drug USE - not DEALING! - and understandably so but again, not quite what you try to make it sound) while on the other hand you have DOZENS of former NPD and Republikaner members, islam haters, anti-semites and all sort of bigots, racists and deplorables supporting them but in that case it's "just a few" that will "fall out eventually", whatever that means. considering the AfD is actively collaborating with the NPD this is ofc pure bs yet again.

while you obviously can just vote for the party itself in bavaria, a designated CSU chancellor would have gotten the CDU votes as well, i thought that was clear. the reason for me to specifically suggest a CSU candidate is that they have been generally speaking more critical of merkel's policies and are (again generally speaking) more conservative - so had they nominated a strong candidate to oppose merkel, that would have been a chance to get some meaningful but reasonable change.

btw, i'm not "playing" the "intelligence card" - it's just a fact that most intelligent and educated people would reject that hateful rhetoric and would not make the retarded statements you made - nothing i need to know you personally for.
a "reasonable solution" for me would include: stricter vetting process to ensure only those in need are allowed in, immediate withdrawal of benefits in case of criminal behaviour, unbeaurocratic and faster deportation of criminals, jurisdiction that makes it easier to sentence those preaching sharia law for example or undermine our democratic order in some other way... that's just off the top of my head - so no, i don't consider any country or any individual who'd suggest such things bigoted - you got that completely wrong, trying to be the victim - again!

i hope you do me the same favour now and finally provide some of the facts i asked you to provide even before you asked me about what i consider a reasonable solution: back up the statements i called you a bigot for. wouldn't that be in your interest as well? you could prove me wrong AND show me that you can actually make an honest argument for a point i don't already agree on... i'm still waiting!

Quote (fender @ 11 Dec 2016 22:50)

learn to read: i don't bother with BILD and for the other sources i thanked you for putting in the effort although i never disputed the facts. still no facts concerning the claims you made that i DID reject, however... wonder if you'll ever reply to that...

also, didn't i tell you to stop making that bs excuse? i'm not calling just anyone i disagree with or anyone who quotes actual facts a racist - it's extremely dishonest and intellectually lazy of you to say that.
WHAT i'm calling you a bigot and a racist for are the actual racist statements you make! like assuming someone is a migrant without ANY proof because he committed a crime, saying 99,9999% of random violence is committed by migrants... THOSE kind of statements.

so typical for you right wingers to pretend you're the victims and people antagonise you just because you have a different "opinion", the oldest trick in the book and you really think ppl don't see what you're doing there?
can you really not distinguish between opinions on the one hand, and racist prejudice and generalisations on the other hand? that's disappointing, even for you.

i bet you don't even see the hypocrisy in claiming the green party "embraces pedophiles and drug dealers" (both plural) when in fact both of them were heavily criticised within the party itself (cohn-bendit for that ominous passage in a book that was published in 1975 - believe me if he had been convicted of any ACTUAL crimes related to pedophilia, he'd be out of politics; beck for his statement and his drug USE - not DEALING! - and understandably so but again, not quite what you try to make it sound) while on the other hand you have DOZENS of former NPD and Republikaner members, islam haters, anti-semites and all sort of bigots, racists and deplorables supporting them but in that case it's "just a few" that will "fall out eventually", whatever that means. considering the AfD is actively collaborating with the NPD this is ofc pure bs yet again.

while you obviously can just vote for the party itself in bavaria, a designated CSU chancellor would have gotten the CDU votes as well, i thought that was clear. the reason for me to specifically suggest a CSU candidate is that they have been generally speaking more critical of merkel's policies and are (again generally speaking) more conservative - so had they nominated a strong candidate to oppose merkel, that would have been a chance to get some meaningful but reasonable change.

btw, i'm not "playing" the "intelligence card" - it's just a fact that most intelligent and educated people would reject that hateful rhetoric and would not make the retarded statements you made - nothing i need to know you personally for.
a "reasonable solution" for me would include: stricter vetting process to ensure only those in need are allowed in, immediate withdrawal of benefits in case of criminal behaviour, unbeaurocratic and faster deportation of criminals, jurisdiction that makes it easier to sentence those preaching sharia law for example or undermine our democratic order in some other way... that's just off the top of my head - so no, i don't consider any country or any individual who'd suggest such things bigoted - you got that completely wrong, trying to be the victim - again!

i hope you do me the same favour now and finally provide some of the facts i asked you to provide even before you asked me about what i consider a reasonable solution: back up the statements i called you a bigot for. wouldn't that be in your interest as well? you could prove me wrong AND show me that you can actually make an honest argument for a point i don't already agree on... i'm still waiting!