Quote (dro94 @ Aug 20 2016 06:45pm)

i wont scatter your fetus to the heartless sea

Quote (Skinned @ Aug 20 2016 11:07pm)

Because the only argument that a fetus's rights supersede an actual persons is if you believe that folding cell mass was imbued with a soul unrelated to the mind and body. There is nothing else there to consider.

We are talking about a gross violation of Rights in one person for a nonperson. A fetus isn't a person. Texas is free to legislate all they want on abortions after the first trimester. Before the first trimester they need to mind their own business over a private healthcare matter.

Planned Parenthood is the major provider of these services and their services are legal. Defunding them for religious reasons and killing actual children in the process is disgusting. They are savages who are now killing children.



Your morality is probably centered on whether or not something feels icky. Killing children and using the state to make women carry fetuses to full term should make you feel more icky.

Icky isn't good to legislate on. Logic and research is better.

If you have a real argument for why a fetal nonperson should have rights that remove the right to self determination from an actual human being I am all ears but it won't hold up to scrutiny.

Quote (dro94 @ Aug 20 2016 05:42pm)

I'm an atheist and I lean towards being pro choice but only due to convenience and pragmatism, i.e. difficult to legislate and enforce, rather than for moral reasons. That's because I cannot reconcile the idea that a woman can consent for a foetus' life to be ended - I don't think x growing inside you gives you property rights over x. It's an independent living being and as such it is grossly unethical to give anybody, including the mother, dominion over its right to life assuming the baby is healthy.

In addition, I think aborting a foetus at 24 weeks (legal in a lot of countries like my own) is a lot different to aborting a foetus at 7 weeks. I don't agree with the life at conception argument peddled by the religious right, as it is quite obvious that in the early stages the baby is resembling more a collection of cells than something distinctly human. However I can sort of see the logic of where they are coming from, in the sense that regardless of the stage of pregnancy they would all end up as fully grown babies...but in relation to my own moral reasoning that is quite irrelevant.

http://imgur.com/oN1ik0l.png

Quote (EndlessSky @ Aug 20 2016 05:49pm)

OP is fear mongering and throwing around one-sided statistics.

In a population of 27 million... only 800 died? How many millions of dollars are we going to waste on a single life?

You might as well ban alcohol (384 deaths per year), gay sex (AIDS 580 gay deaths per year), steep stairs (1500 fall deaths per year), and junk food (25,000 from heart disease + 5,000 from diabetes). They would be free and of instant benefit without the tax-aided theft.

What I want to know is, what is the lifetime marginal cost of making people dependent on tax-funded clinics? It hasn't stopped back-alley abortions either, that still happens.

(I actually support taxing junk food.)

Quote (Skinned @ Aug 20 2016 11:52pm)

How is in anyway independent?

Quote (dro94 @ Aug 20 2016 05:54pm)

Are conjoined twins 1 person or 2 people?

Quote (Skinned @ Aug 20 2016 06:52pm)

Hospitals and clinics. You propose closing almost all hospitals and clinics in the United States for ideological purity. Fucking libertarians can eat a dick.

You see the first 800 deaths of a policy and can't generalize it. Wtf man.

Quote (Skinned @ Aug 20 2016 11:56pm)

Can a fetus be said to be that already?

You are talking about a person or people. I'm talking about a fetus.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Aug 20 2016 05:59pm)

Strawman. Not an argument.

Quote (dro94 @ Aug 20 2016 06:01pm)

The analogy of conjoined twins was to show that independence is not determined by physical proximity, whether that be a conjoined twin or foetus and mother.

I think a human's independence is determined by cognition. If there are 2 brains there are 2 people. You can disagree.

e/ that's why I draw a distinction between an early stage pregnancy and later stage pregnancy. A collection of cells has no propensity for cognition.