Quote (NatureNames @ Apr 13 2016 05:30pm)

Humans are animals. If you're not too arrogant to accept the implications of this fact, then the ethical questions of welfare become pretty clear in my opinion. Just look around the rest of the animal kingdom - there is no welfare, rights, or ethics. These things only exist in the minds of humans and the animals they anthropomorphize.

Quote (Beowulf @ Apr 13 2016 06:44pm)

We destroy our planet while the rest of its creatures serve to maintain and balance

I would say that makes us more of a parasite

Quote (NatureNames @ Apr 13 2016 10:05pm)

I dont think any lifeforms serve to maintain balance, except maybe a few humans. I think plants and animals serve themselves only, to survive. Ecosystems are almost always unbalanced and changing. If things were balanced, I dont think 99.9% of all species would be extinct.

Quote (Voyaging @ Apr 13 2016 10:18pm)

This is not relevant to the discussion about morality and animal welfare.

Quote (IceMage @ Apr 13 2016 11:24pm)

Question... is your survival more morally adequate than the survival of an animal?

For example, you are in a situation where you have to kill an animal and eat it to survive. Would that be an immoral act in that situation according to your morality?

Quote (Handcuffs @ Apr 13 2016 06:37pm)

The thread clearly focuses on the colloquial usage of the word "animal", and independent of whether other non-human animals practice "welfare, rights, or ethics", or even have the capacity to conceptualize them, is irrelevant to the question(s) at hand. The thread is about our human relation to non-human animals.

Quote (Voyaging @ Apr 13 2016 08:18pm)

This is not relevant to the discussion about morality and animal welfare.

Quote (NatureNames @ Apr 14 2016 12:39am)

Maybe you guys missed my point. I was suggesting that the relationship between humans and other animals is not necessarily different than the kill-and-consume relationship that exists in basically all animals. I question the ethics of this human sentiment known as "animal welfare". Where did it come from? Why does it exist? and Should we indulge in it? I think these questions can expose the ideological differences that sway people one way or the other on topics like farming, entertainment, animals testing, etc

Its cetainly changed my perspective on animal welfare. I used to wish all the animals could be free, happy, and poop rainbows. I was a misinformed bleeding-heart animal lover believing i was empathizing with animals. But now I see all animals (including humans) as part of nature, and shes a raw harsh deadly beast. So now my previous emotions over a caged chicken seems one-denominational and self-serving.

Quote (Voyaging @ Apr 13 2016 09:41pm)

What is your argument for why we ought to behave like other animals?

Quote (NatureNames @ Apr 14 2016 12:47am)

We do behave like other animals. I have no argument.