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Jan 27 2016 10:20am
in the long run presenting contradictory evidence may work to convince people but it looks like facts really do not win immediate arguments after all when dealing with people who have strong political beliefs - and not only that, presenting contradictory evidence actually makes people double down with greater conviction on the demonstrably false beliefs they cherish

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~nyhan/nyhan-reifler.pdf
Quote
The backfire effects that we found seem to provide further support for the
growing literature showing that citizens engage in “motivated reasoning.” While our
experiments focused on assessing the effectiveness of corrections, the results show that
direct factual contradictions can actually strengthen ideologically grounded factual
beliefs – an empirical finding with important theoretical implications.


so the next time you're arguing with someone who denies the earth being more than 6000 years old, denies evolution, denies climate change, embraces trickle down economics, denies the link between smoking and cancer, believes iraq had wmds, thinks the free market is the solution to everything, or blames obama for hurricane katrina, know that you will only strengthen their beliefs by presenting them with evidence that contradicts their beliefs
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Jan 27 2016 10:26am
Indeed, then factor in confirmation bias and some folks your talking to ought to be sticking their fingers in ear while yelling "LA LA LA LA LALALA I cant hear your mouth words".

This isnt taking a position on some of the other points you mentioned, only that it takes work to overcome a bias.

Do you want to believe the earth is flat, round, a hologram under control of lizard people, you'll find "sources" that suit your view.

This post was edited by Master_Zappy on Jan 27 2016 10:29am
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Jan 27 2016 10:28am
I love when "new" studies confirm what has been known for thousands of years.
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Jan 27 2016 10:35am
Quote (duffman316 @ Jan 27 2016 10:20am)
in the long run presenting contradictory evidence may work to convince people but it looks like facts really do not win immediate arguments after all when dealing with people who have strong political beliefs - and not only that, presenting contradictory evidence actually makes people double down with greater conviction on the demonstrably false beliefs they cherish

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~nyhan/nyhan-reifler.pdf


so the next time you're arguing with someone who denies the earth being more than 6000 years old, denies evolution, denies climate change, embraces trickle down economics, denies the link between smoking and cancer, believes iraq had wmds, thinks the free market is the solution to everything, or blames obama for hurricane katrina, know that you will only strengthen their beliefs by presenting them with evidence that contradicts their beliefs


...you forgot to add "trickle up poverty works," "gun control works," "legal abortion lowers crime," "Democrats are the party of the little people," "Gadaffi was a super evil dude," "Ambassador Stevens is dead because of a video," etc...
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Jan 27 2016 10:36am
Quote (IceMage @ Jan 27 2016 10:28am)
I love when "new" studies confirm what has been known for thousands of years.


And there's plenty of "new" studies that contradict what has been "known" for thousands of years. You gotta double check what is "known" as well as explore new ground. Sometimes you end up putting a stop to incredibly harmful practices. One such example I learned of recently was the radical masectomy. Turns out doctors were pointlessly injuring patients for nearly a century.

Anyway recent studies have shown facts don't change the opinions of vaccine deniers. The most effective way they found to do that was show them kids with smallpox or measles.

Other studies have shown an effective long term strategy for combating climate change denialism is to change the peer group of a person. People tend to conform to groups more than to rational ideas.
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Jan 27 2016 10:41am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 27 2016 11:36am)
And there's plenty of "new" studies that contradict what has been "known" for thousands of years. You gotta double check what is "known" as well as explore new ground. Sometimes you end up putting a stop to incredibly harmful practices. One such example I learned of recently was the radical masectomy. Turns out doctors were pointlessly injuring patients for nearly a century.

Anyway recent studies have shown facts don't change the opinions of vaccine deniers. The most effective way they found to do that was show them kids with smallpox or measles.

Other studies have shown an effective long term strategy for combating climate change denialism is to change the peer group of a person. People tend to conform to groups more than to rational ideas.


Cool story bro?

I await a study to tell me the sun will be going down today.
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Jan 27 2016 10:44am
Quote (IceMage @ Jan 27 2016 10:41am)
Cool story bro?

I await a study to tell me the sun will be going down today.


Just trying to impart some scientific litteracy your way. There are some fields fraught with "common knowledge" that is total BS. Medicine and psychology are some of the worst.
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Jan 27 2016 10:44am
Quote (Master_Zappy @ Jan 27 2016 11:26am)
Indeed, then factor in confirmation bias and some folks your talking to ought to be sticking their fingers in ear while yelling "LA LA LA LA LALALA I cant hear your mouth words".

This isnt taking a position on some of the other points you mentioned, only that it takes work to overcome a bias.

Do you want to believe the earth is flat, round, a hologram under control of lizard people, you'll find "sources" that suit your view.


in the case of many people they are beyond the point of no return, best to let them die out and bolster the public education system to make sure the knowledge base we're providing to children of the next generation is a step above that of the previous one
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Jan 27 2016 10:46am
Quote (Master_Zappy @ Jan 27 2016 10:26am)
Indeed, then factor in confirmation bias and some folks your talking to ought to be sticking their fingers in ear while yelling "LA LA LA LA LALALA I cant hear your mouth words".

This isnt taking a position on some of the other points you mentioned, only that it takes work to overcome a bias.

Do you want to believe the earth is flat, round, a hologram under control of lizard people, you'll find "sources" that suit your view.







This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jan 27 2016 10:47am
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Jan 27 2016 11:50am
Quote (Thor123422 @ 27 Jan 2016 10:36)
And there's plenty of "new" studies that contradict what has been "known" for thousands of years. You gotta double check what is "known" as well as explore new ground. Sometimes you end up putting a stop to incredibly harmful practices. One such example I learned of recently was the radical masectomy. Turns out doctors were pointlessly injuring patients for nearly a century.

Anyway recent studies have shown facts don't change the opinions of vaccine deniers. The most effective way they found to do that was show them kids with smallpox or measles.

Other studies have shown an effective long term strategy for combating climate change denialism is to change the peer group of a person. People tend to conform to groups more than to rational ideas.


Exactly. Even our basic assumptions must be questioned, analyzed, and studied.

While this study may make you say to yourself, "Well, duh!", there have also been other studies that question basic assumptions/common sense that have taught us something we may not have known before.
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