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Jan 29 2018 11:39pm
Quote (caswallen @ 30 Jan 2018 08:35)
historically the Jews weren't the greatest people around....
however they are still gods chosen people...
you can believe whatever you want, and I will pray for you...

Jesus loves you, but you can be real dicks when you want to...


ok, now go back into the toilet
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Jan 29 2018 11:42pm
Quote (the_rest @ Jan 29 2018 11:39pm)
ok, now go back into the toilet


Jesus is lord
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Jan 29 2018 11:54pm
now 'you' say some joke about god...
and I take things serious, while you have fun mocking...
totally convinced of your own superiority...
and we do the conflict thing for awhile...
you make some ridiculous claim about being justified...
then some of your friends come in and you team up or something...
then I stand by my heavenly family, in solidarity...
and we both say some mean things... until one of us gets bored and leaves... and whoever leaves is the loser right?


hey everyone we got a funny toilet over here!

fuuuck you
Member
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Jan 30 2018 06:58am
Quote (caswallen @ Jan 30 2018 06:54am)
now 'you' say some joke about god...
and I take things serious, while you have fun mocking...
totally convinced of your own superiority...
and we do the conflict thing for awhile...
you make some ridiculous claim about being justified...
then some of your friends come in and you team up or something...
then I stand by my heavenly family, in solidarity...
and we both say some mean things... until one of us gets bored and leaves... and whoever leaves is the loser right?


hey everyone we got a funny toilet over here!

fuuuck you


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Jan 30 2018 08:11am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Jan 29 2018 06:55pm)
We all know it's bullshit, a lie made to scam simply minded people
2000 or more pages book, pick up parts, then claiming about right prophecies.

Bad joke, and dangerous, goulag for this, no doubt.

Btw
http://nationalpost.com/news/world/poisoned-toothpaste-and-exploding-phones-israel-linked-to-2700-assassination-operations-in-70-years

Amazing, bright, bible glory


Quote (Scaly @ Jan 30 2018 04:30am)
That's fine. I'm simply saying that the god described by the bible does not and never did exist. If you want to create your own god by picking the believable things the bible says and ignoring the less believable things then that's your business and an entirely different god.

As I stated - I can say with a pretty high level of certainty that the God of Abraham and Moses does not and did not exist. I said nothing about the god of Santara.

The thing that gets me though is that while you're picking and choosing between what has to be taken with a grain of salt, what's just an allegory or metaphor and what is actual historical fact you decide that resurrection, people living for 500+ years, magic leprosy-curing hands, a paradise in another world where believers go after they die and a fiery pit filled with demons and naughty people who don't believe all this shit are somehow much more plausible, more believable, than a worldwide flood or all the firstborn of Egypt dying.




I did. It didn't.


Oh please, is that all you mortals can come up with? I'll shove it in your face once again and demand that you conform to the ways of Christianity. I gave you six references of the history of the war itself. You always have this thing about not having The Bible as the only reference? Well here you go.

You want something recent that you can ask your Grandma and Granddad before they die? Here you go.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14th May 1948, Israel declared independence. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon invaded Israel. Bear in mind this is three years after the holocaust. As such, they were outnumbered 20 million to 1 million. Yet Israel not only won the war but expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

That is all well and good until you discover that the Bible foretold this. In fact, there were 10 Prophecies fulfilled in 1948.

  • 1 - The descendants of Jacob would regain control of Israel

    Amos 9:14-15 I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

    Written: about 750 BC

    Amos says that there would come a time when the exiles of Israel would once again have Israel as their own land and not only that but they would never be uprooted again.
  • 2 - Israel would be brought back to life

    Ezekiel 37:10-14 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet--a vast army. Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

    Written: Sometime between 593-571 BC

    The Prophet Ezekiel receives a vision where Israel is seen as a scattering of dried-up bones. God tells Ezekiel that the bones would be brought back to life. The Jews have been brought back to the land, and the country of Israel has been brought back to life as they have re-established sovereignty in 1948, merely three years after the end of the holocaust.
  • 3 - Israel being reborn in a single day

    Isaiah 66:7-8 - “Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.”

    Written: between 701-681 BC

    Isaiah prophesies the re-birth of Israel in 1948. The description is like a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This is exactly what happened on 14th May 1948 when Israel declared independence as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in over 2900 years.

    A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Israel worldwide to move to Israel, which was called Palestine at that time. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
  • 4 - Israel would be re-established as a united nation

    Ezekiel 37:21-22 - and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    The Sovereign Lord says that he will take the Israelites out of the nations and gather them from all around the world, bring them back into their own land and make them one nation in the land. At that time, the people of Israel had already divided themselves into two separate kingdoms and many were forced into exile by foreign invaders. There is no doubt that this would have been a shock for Ezekiel.
  • 5 - The second Israel would be more impressive than the first

    Jeremiah 16:14-15 - “However, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when men will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers.

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    Jeremiah prophesies that the second Israel would be more impressive than the first. In many regards, it is. The first time Israel was established as a country was after Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. The second time Israel was established was after they were scattered far and wide for a few thousand years.
  • 6 - Ezekiel predicted whenIsrael would be re-established

    Ezekiel 4:3-6 - Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the house of Israel. “Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the house of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the house of Israel. “After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the house of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.

    Written 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel told the Israelites, who had lost control of their homeland, that they would be punished for 430 years. It is from this that we can pinpoint 1948, the rebirth of Israel. Grant R. Jeffrey explains it further.

    1 - Ezekiel said Israel would be punished for 430 years because they turned away from God. Israel lost control of their homeland to Babylon.
    2 - Babylon was later conquered by Cyrus in 539 BC. Cyrus allowed Israel to leave Babylon and to return to their homeland but only a small number returned. This return took place around 536 BC, about 70 years after Judah lost independence to Babylon.
    3- Because most of the exiles chose to stay in Babylon rather than returning to the Holy Land, the remaining 360 years of their punishment was multiplied by 7. The book of Leviticus explains why.

    Leviticus 26:18 - "If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:21 - "If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve."
    Leviticus 26:24 - "I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:28 - "then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over."

    So from here we need to do some Mathematics. 360 * 7 = 2520 years. However, these years are based on a 360-day lunar calendar because that's how they worked out years in the Bible. What we need to do now is convert that to a modern day calendar of 365.25 so let's do it.

    2520 * 360 = 907,200
    907,200 / 365.25 = 2,483.8 (round .77 to .8)

    So now we add 2483.8 to 536.4 BC.
    -536.4 + 2483.8 = 1947.4.
    However, since there is no year between 1BC and 1AD (No zero) We add +1 to make up for that!
    1947.4 + 1 = 1948.4!

    Israel was proclaimed as a nation on 14th may 1948.
  • 7 - The people of Israel would return to "their own land"

    Ezekiel 34:13 - I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel says that God would gather the people of Israel scattered throughout the world and bring them into their own land. Millions of Israel returned after they declared independence in 1948. So millions of exiles returned to their ancient homeland which was now truly their own land in the sense that it is now a sovereign Jewish state.
  • 8 - God will watch over the people of Israel

    Jeremiah 31:10 - “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations; proclaim it in distant coastlands: ‘He who scattered Israel will gather them and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    The LORD declares that he would one day gather all of Israel and that he would watch over them like a Shepherd does his sheep. There is evidence that God has indeed watched over re-established nation of Israel. Mere hours after Israel declared independence in 1948, the surrounding countries attacked. Israel was outnumbered but Israel prevailed in the war and were able to capture additional land. Not only that but Israel prevailed in two other major wars that followed.
  • 9 - Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful

    Leviticus 26:3, 7-8 - “If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, ... You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.”

    Written: about 1400 BC

    If the people of Israel are obedient to The LORD then the Bible says that 5 of them would be able to chase away 100 people and that 100 would be able to chase away 10,000. Is there any proof of this? Let's look at three examples.

    Example 1: Within hours of Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, they were attacked by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon. The combined population was at least 20 million whereas Israel had fewer than 1 million in population. Israel won the war and expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

    Example 2: In 1967, Israel attacked the air force bases of the surrounding countries and took control of Jerusalem for the first time in over 2000 years. Not only did they seize additional territory but the war only lasted 6 days.

    Example 3: On 6th October 1973, Israel was attacked by Egypt and Syria. Other countries later joined the attack but Israel were able to push back the attacking armies and occupy land outside of Israel's borders.
  • 10 - The fortunes of the people of Israel would be restored

    Deuteronomy 30:3-5 - then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.

    Written: about 1400 BC

    The Bible says that Israel would be scattered worldwide and later return to their homeland and have their fortunes restored. Many of the Israelites returned to Israel from as far as China, United States, Russia and South Africa. Israel declared independence in 1948. Today, Israel is among the world's most prosperous countries.


There is the full list for you to ponder. If all this does not convince you then I don't know what will.

Oh and ofcourse I will list my references for you.

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/articles/1948PropheciesFulfilled.html
http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/history-07.htm
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/six-day-war-ends
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/10/arab-israeli-war-of-1973-what-happened-171005105247349.html

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Jan 30 2018 07:16pm
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Jan 30 2018 07:19pm
Quote (xfrodobagginsx @ Jan 30 2018 05:16pm)


go repent

e: link doesn't even work

This post was edited by JohnMiller92 on Jan 30 2018 07:19pm
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Jan 30 2018 07:35pm
Quote (CPK001 @ Jan 4 2018 01:16am)
14th May 1948, Israel declared independence. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon invaded Israel. Bear in mind this is three years after the holocaust. As such, they were outnumbered 20 million to 1 million. Yet Israel not only won the war but expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

That is all well and good until you discover that the Bible foretold this. In fact, there were 10 Prophecies fulfilled in 1948.

  • 1 - The descendants of Jacob would regain control of Israel

    Amos 9:14-15 I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

    Written: about 750 BC

    Amos says that there would come a time when the exiles of Israel would once again have Israel as their own land and not only that but they would never be uprooted again.
  • 2 - Israel would be brought back to life

    Ezekiel 37:10-14 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet--a vast army. Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

    Written: Sometime between 593-571 BC

    The Prophet Ezekiel receives a vision where Israel is seen as a scattering of dried-up bones. God tells Ezekiel that the bones would be brought back to life. The Jews have been brought back to the land, and the country of Israel has been brought back to life as they have re-established sovereignty in 1948, merely three years after the end of the holocaust.
  • 3 - Israel being reborn in a single day

    Isaiah 66:7-8 - “Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.”

    Written: between 701-681 BC

    Isaiah prophesies the re-birth of Israel in 1948. The description is like a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This is exactly what happened on 14th May 1948 when Israel declared independence as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in over 2900 years.

    A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Israel worldwide to move to Israel, which was called Palestine at that time. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
  • 4 - Israel would be re-established as a united nation

    Ezekiel 37:21-22 - and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    The Sovereign Lord says that he will take the Israelites out of the nations and gather them from all around the world, bring them back into their own land and make them one nation in the land. At that time, the people of Israel had already divided themselves into two separate kingdoms and many were forced into exile by foreign invaders. There is no doubt that this would have been a shock for Ezekiel.
  • 5 - The second Israel would be more impressive than the first

    Jeremiah 16:14-15 - “However, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when men will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers.

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    Jeremiah prophesies that the second Israel would be more impressive than the first. In many regards, it is. The first time Israel was established as a country was after Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. The second time Israel was established was after they were scattered far and wide for a few thousand years.
  • 6 - Ezekiel predicted whenIsrael would be re-established

    Ezekiel 4:3-6 - Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the house of Israel. “Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the house of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the house of Israel. “After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the house of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.

    Written 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel told the Israelites, who had lost control of their homeland, that they would be punished for 430 years. It is from this that we can pinpoint 1948, the rebirth of Israel. Grant R. Jeffrey explains it further.

    1 - Ezekiel said Israel would be punished for 430 years because they turned away from God. Israel lost control of their homeland to Babylon.
    2 - Babylon was later conquered by Cyrus in 539 BC. Cyrus allowed Israel to leave Babylon and to return to their homeland but only a small number returned. This return took place around 536 BC, about 70 years after Judah lost independence to Babylon.
    3- Because most of the exiles chose to stay in Babylon rather than returning to the Holy Land, the remaining 360 years of their punishment was multiplied by 7. The book of Leviticus explains why.

    Leviticus 26:18 - "If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:21 - "If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve."
    Leviticus 26:24 - "I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:28 - "then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over."

    So from here we need to do some Mathematics. 360 * 7 = 2520 years. However, these years are based on a 360-day lunar calendar because that's how they worked out years in the Bible. What we need to do now is convert that to a modern day calendar of 365.25 so let's do it.

    2520 * 360 = 907,200
    907,200 / 365.25 = 2,483.8 (round .77 to .8)

    So now we add 2483.8 to 536.4 BC.
    -536.4 + 2483.8 = 1947.4.
    However, since there is no year between 1BC and 1AD (No zero) We add +1 to make up for that!
    1947.4 + 1 = 1948.4!

    Israel was proclaimed as a nation on 14th may 1948.
  • 7 - The people of Israel would return to "their own land"

    Ezekiel 34:13 - I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel says that God would gather the people of Israel scattered throughout the world and bring them into their own land. Millions of Israel returned after they declared independence in 1948. So millions of exiles returned to their ancient homeland which was now truly their own land in the sense that it is now a sovereign Jewish state.
  • 8 - God will watch over the people of Israel

    Jeremiah 31:10 - “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations; proclaim it in distant coastlands: ‘He who scattered Israel will gather them and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    The LORD declares that he would one day gather all of Israel and that he would watch over them like a Shepherd does his sheep. There is evidence that God has indeed watched over re-established nation of Israel. Mere hours after Israel declared independence in 1948, the surrounding countries attacked. Israel was outnumbered but Israel prevailed in the war and were able to capture additional land. Not only that but Israel prevailed in two other major wars that followed.
  • 9 - Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful

    Leviticus 26:3, 7-8 - “If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, ... You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.”

    Written: about 1400 BC

    If the people of Israel are obedient to The LORD then the Bible says that 5 of them would be able to chase away 100 people and that 100 would be able to chase away 10,000. Is there any proof of this? Let's look at three examples.

    Example 1: Within hours of Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, they were attacked by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon. The combined population was at least 20 million whereas Israel had fewer than 1 million in population. Israel won the war and expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

    Example 2: In 1967, Israel attacked the air force bases of the surrounding countries and took control of Jerusalem for the first time in over 2000 years. Not only did they seize additional territory but the war only lasted 6 days.

    Example 3: On 6th October 1973, Israel was attacked by Egypt and Syria. Other countries later joined the attack but Israel were able to push back the attacking armies and occupy land outside of Israel's borders.
  • 10 - The fortunes of the people of Israel would be restored

    Deuteronomy 30:3-5 - then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.

    Written: about 1400 BC

    The Bible says that Israel would be scattered worldwide and later return to their homeland and have their fortunes restored. Many of the Israelites returned to Israel from as far as China, United States, Russia and South Africa. Israel declared independence in 1948. Today, Israel is among the world's most prosperous countries.


There is the full list for you to ponder. If all this does not convince you then I don't know what will.

Oh and ofcourse I will list my references for you.

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/articles/1948PropheciesFulfilled.html
http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/history-07.htm
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/six-day-war-ends
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/10/arab-israeli-war-of-1973-what-happened-171005105247349.html



Hate to tell you but all of those aren’t accurate. God said he would abandon forever the nation of Israel because of their refusal to acknowledge his son and make changes. He would then establish a spiritual Israel of those from all tribes and nations. That Israel would be in a state of unrest until the end of this system of things. Many still think Israel is God’s chosen nation and with that it distorts all events and prophecy connections they try to make.

Does Bible Prophecy Point to the Modern State of Israel?

TODAY the world nervously watches the Middle East. Rocket attacks, clashes of armed militias, and terrorist bombings are frequent occurrences. Add to this explosive mixture the very real possibility that nuclear weapons could be used. No wonder people everywhere are worried!

The world was also anxiously watching the Middle East in May of 1948. At that time, 62 years ago, the British mandate to occupy what was then called Palestine was ending, and war was imminent. The year before, the United Nations had authorized the creation of an independent Jewish State in a portion of the occupied territories. The surrounding Arab nations had vowed to prevent this at any cost. “The partition line shall be nothing but a line of fire and blood,” warned the Arab League.

It was Friday afternoon, May 14, 1948, at 4:00 p.m. The final hours of the British mandate were ticking away. In the Tel Aviv Museum, a small crowd of 350 onlookers were present by secret invitation for an eagerly anticipated announcement​—the formal declaration of statehood for the modern-day nation of Israel. Security was tight, lest the numerous enemies of the fledgling State attack the proceedings.

David Ben-Gurion, the leader of Israel’s National Council, read The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel. It stated, in part: “We, members of the People’s Council, representatives of the Jewish Community of Eretz-Israel . . . by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the Resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, hereby declare the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.”

A Fulfillment of Bible Prophecy?
Some Evangelical Protestants believe that the modern State of Israel thus fulfilled a Bible prophecy. For example, in the book Jerusalem Countdown, clergyman John Hagee states: “This momentous occasion had been recorded by the pen of the prophet Isaiah, saying, ‘A nation shall be born in a day.’ (See Isaiah 66:8.) . . . It was the greatest moment in prophetic history of the twentieth century. It was living evidence for all men to see that the God of Israel was alive and well.”

Is that statement true? Did Isaiah 66:8 predict the establishment of the modern State of Israel? Was May 14, 1948, the “greatest moment in prophetic history of the twentieth century”? If the modern State of Israel is still God’s chosen nation, and if he is using it to fulfill Bible prophecies, this would certainly be of interest to Bible students everywhere.

Isaiah’s prophecy states: “Who has heard of a thing like this? Who has seen things like these? Will a land be brought forth with labor pains in one day? Or will a nation be born at one time? For Zion has come into labor pains as well as given birth to her sons.” (Isaiah 66:8) The verse is clearly foretelling the sudden birth of an entire nation, as if in a single day. But who would cause this birth? The next verse gives a clue: “‘As for me, shall I cause the breaking through and not cause the giving birth?’ says Jehovah. ‘Or am I causing a giving birth and do I actually cause a shutting up?’ your God has said.” Jehovah God makes it clear that the dramatic birth of the nation would be his doing.

Modern Israel is governed as a secular democracy that officially makes no claim to rely on the God of the Bible. Did the Israelis in 1948 recognize Jehovah God as the one responsible for their declaration of statehood? They did not. Neither the name of God nor even the word “God” was mentioned anywhere in the original text of the proclamation. The book Great Moments in Jewish History says this of the final text: “Even at 1:00 P.M. when the National Council met, its members could not agree about the wording of the proclamation of statehood. . . . Observant Jews wanted a reference to ‘the God of Israel.’ Secularists balked. Compromising, Ben-Gurion decided that the word ‘Rock’ would appear instead of ‘God.’”

The modern State of Israel to this day bases its claim to statehood on a UN resolution and what it calls the natural and historic right of the Jewish people. Is it reasonable to expect that the God of the Bible would perform the greatest prophetic miracle in the 20th century in behalf of a people who refuse to give him credit?

How Does the Modern Claim to Statehood Compare?
Modern Israel’s secular attitude contrasts sharply with the situation in 537 B.C.E. Back then, the nation of Israel was indeed ‘reborn’ as if in a day after being devastated and depopulated by the Babylonians 70 years earlier. At that time, Isaiah 66:8 was strikingly fulfilled when the Persian conqueror of Babylon, Cyrus the Great, authorized the return of the Jews to their homeland.​—Ezra 1:2.

The Persian King Cyrus recognized Jehovah’s hand in the matter in 537 B.C.E., and those who returned to Jerusalem did so for the express purpose of restoring the worship of Jehovah God and rebuilding his temple. The modern State of Israel has never officially declared any such desire or intention.

Still God’s Chosen Nation?
In the year 33 C.E., the fleshly nation of Israel lost its claim to be God’s chosen nation when it rejected Jehovah’s Son, the Messiah. The Messiah himself put it this way: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her . . . Look! Your house is abandoned to you.” (Matthew 23:37, 38) Jesus’ statement came true when in 70 C.E., Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem along with its temple and priesthood. But what was to become of God’s purpose to have a “special property out of all other peoples, . . . a kingdom of priests and a holy nation”?​—Exodus 19:5, 6.

The apostle Peter, himself a fleshly Jew, answered that question in a letter written to Christians​—both Gentile and Jewish. He wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession,’ . . . for you were once not a people, but are now God’s people; you were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.”​—1 Peter 2:7-10.

Christians who were selected by holy spirit thus belong to a spiritual nation, their membership not being determined by birth or geographic location. The apostle Paul described the matter this way: “Neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation is something. And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God.”​—Galatians 6:15, 16.

Whereas the modern nation of Israel offers to confer citizenship upon any natural or converted Jew, citizenship in what the Bible calls “the Israel of God” is given only to those who are “obedient and sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:1, 2) Speaking of these members of the Israel of God, or spiritual Jews, Paul wrote: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.”​—Romans 2:28, 29.

That verse helps us understand a controversial comment Paul made. In his letter to the Romans, Paul explained how the unbelieving natural Jews were like branches of a symbolic olive tree that were lopped off so that “wild” Gentile “branches” could be grafted in. (Romans 11:17-21) Concluding this illustration, he states: “A dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved.” (Romans 11:25, 26) Was Paul foretelling an eleventh hour mass conversion of the Jews to Christianity? Clearly, no such conversion has taken place.


What did Paul’s illustration of the olive tree mean?
By the expression “all Israel,” Paul meant all of spiritual Israel​—Christians who have been selected by holy spirit. He was saying that the failure of the natural Jews to accept the Messiah would not thwart God’s purpose to have a spiritual ‘olive tree’ full of productive branches. This is in harmony with Jesus’ own illustration of himself as a vine whose nonproductive branches will be lopped off. Jesus said: “I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. Every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes away, and every one bearing fruit he cleans, that it may bear more fruit.”​—John 15:1, 2.

Although the establishment of the modern State of Israel was not foretold in the Bible, the establishment of the nation of spiritual Israel certainly was! If you identify and associate with that spiritual nation today, you will reap eternal blessings.​—Genesis 22:15-18; Galatians 3:8, 9.
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Jan 31 2018 04:58am
Quote (CPK001 @ 30 Jan 2018 17:11)
Oh please, is that all you mortals can come up with? I'll shove it in your face once again and demand that you conform to the ways of Christianity. I gave you six references of the history of the war itself. You always have this thing about not having The Bible as the only reference? Well here you go.

You want something recent that you can ask your Grandma and Granddad before they die? Here you go.

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14th May 1948, Israel declared independence. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon invaded Israel. Bear in mind this is three years after the holocaust. As such, they were outnumbered 20 million to 1 million. Yet Israel not only won the war but expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

That is all well and good until you discover that the Bible foretold this. In fact, there were 10 Prophecies fulfilled in 1948.

  • 1 - The descendants of Jacob would regain control of Israel

    Amos 9:14-15 I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

    Written: about 750 BC

    Amos says that there would come a time when the exiles of Israel would once again have Israel as their own land and not only that but they would never be uprooted again.
  • 2 - Israel would be brought back to life

    Ezekiel 37:10-14 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet--a vast army. Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

    Written: Sometime between 593-571 BC

    The Prophet Ezekiel receives a vision where Israel is seen as a scattering of dried-up bones. God tells Ezekiel that the bones would be brought back to life. The Jews have been brought back to the land, and the country of Israel has been brought back to life as they have re-established sovereignty in 1948, merely three years after the end of the holocaust.
  • 3 - Israel being reborn in a single day

    Isaiah 66:7-8 - “Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.”

    Written: between 701-681 BC

    Isaiah prophesies the re-birth of Israel in 1948. The description is like a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This is exactly what happened on 14th May 1948 when Israel declared independence as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in over 2900 years.

    A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Israel worldwide to move to Israel, which was called Palestine at that time. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
  • 4 - Israel would be re-established as a united nation

    Ezekiel 37:21-22 - and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    The Sovereign Lord says that he will take the Israelites out of the nations and gather them from all around the world, bring them back into their own land and make them one nation in the land. At that time, the people of Israel had already divided themselves into two separate kingdoms and many were forced into exile by foreign invaders. There is no doubt that this would have been a shock for Ezekiel.
  • 5 - The second Israel would be more impressive than the first

    Jeremiah 16:14-15 - “However, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when men will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers.

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    Jeremiah prophesies that the second Israel would be more impressive than the first. In many regards, it is. The first time Israel was established as a country was after Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. The second time Israel was established was after they were scattered far and wide for a few thousand years.
  • 6 - Ezekiel predicted whenIsrael would be re-established

    Ezekiel 4:3-6 - Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the house of Israel. “Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the house of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the house of Israel. “After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the house of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.

    Written 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel told the Israelites, who had lost control of their homeland, that they would be punished for 430 years. It is from this that we can pinpoint 1948, the rebirth of Israel. Grant R. Jeffrey explains it further.

    1 - Ezekiel said Israel would be punished for 430 years because they turned away from God. Israel lost control of their homeland to Babylon.
    2 - Babylon was later conquered by Cyrus in 539 BC. Cyrus allowed Israel to leave Babylon and to return to their homeland but only a small number returned. This return took place around 536 BC, about 70 years after Judah lost independence to Babylon.
    3- Because most of the exiles chose to stay in Babylon rather than returning to the Holy Land, the remaining 360 years of their punishment was multiplied by 7. The book of Leviticus explains why.

    Leviticus 26:18 - "If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:21 - "If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve."
    Leviticus 26:24 - "I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:28 - "then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over."

    So from here we need to do some Mathematics. 360 * 7 = 2520 years. However, these years are based on a 360-day lunar calendar because that's how they worked out years in the Bible. What we need to do now is convert that to a modern day calendar of 365.25 so let's do it.

    2520 * 360 = 907,200
    907,200 / 365.25 = 2,483.8 (round .77 to .8)

    So now we add 2483.8 to 536.4 BC.
    -536.4 + 2483.8 = 1947.4.
    However, since there is no year between 1BC and 1AD (No zero) We add +1 to make up for that!
    1947.4 + 1 = 1948.4!

    Israel was proclaimed as a nation on 14th may 1948.
  • 7 - The people of Israel would return to "their own land"

    Ezekiel 34:13 - I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel says that God would gather the people of Israel scattered throughout the world and bring them into their own land. Millions of Israel returned after they declared independence in 1948. So millions of exiles returned to their ancient homeland which was now truly their own land in the sense that it is now a sovereign Jewish state.
  • 8 - God will watch over the people of Israel

    Jeremiah 31:10 - “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations; proclaim it in distant coastlands: ‘He who scattered Israel will gather them and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    The LORD declares that he would one day gather all of Israel and that he would watch over them like a Shepherd does his sheep. There is evidence that God has indeed watched over re-established nation of Israel. Mere hours after Israel declared independence in 1948, the surrounding countries attacked. Israel was outnumbered but Israel prevailed in the war and were able to capture additional land. Not only that but Israel prevailed in two other major wars that followed.
  • 9 - Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful

    Leviticus 26:3, 7-8 - “If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, ... You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.”

    Written: about 1400 BC

    If the people of Israel are obedient to The LORD then the Bible says that 5 of them would be able to chase away 100 people and that 100 would be able to chase away 10,000. Is there any proof of this? Let's look at three examples.

    Example 1: Within hours of Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, they were attacked by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon. The combined population was at least 20 million whereas Israel had fewer than 1 million in population. Israel won the war and expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

    Example 2: In 1967, Israel attacked the air force bases of the surrounding countries and took control of Jerusalem for the first time in over 2000 years. Not only did they seize additional territory but the war only lasted 6 days.

    Example 3: On 6th October 1973, Israel was attacked by Egypt and Syria. Other countries later joined the attack but Israel were able to push back the attacking armies and occupy land outside of Israel's borders.
  • 10 - The fortunes of the people of Israel would be restored

    Deuteronomy 30:3-5 - then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.

    Written: about 1400 BC

    The Bible says that Israel would be scattered worldwide and later return to their homeland and have their fortunes restored. Many of the Israelites returned to Israel from as far as China, United States, Russia and South Africa. Israel declared independence in 1948. Today, Israel is among the world's most prosperous countries.


There is the full list for you to ponder. If all this does not convince you then I don't know what will.

Oh and ofcourse I will list my references for you.

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/articles/1948PropheciesFulfilled.html
http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/history-07.htm
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/six-day-war-ends
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/10/arab-israeli-war-of-1973-what-happened-171005105247349.html


Quote (PowerTripped @ 31 Jan 2018 04:35)
Hate to tell you but all of those aren’t accurate. God said he would abandon forever the nation of Israel because of their refusal to acknowledge his son and make changes. He would then establish a spiritual Israel of those from all tribes and nations. That Israel would be in a state of unrest until the end of this system of things. Many still think Israel is God’s chosen nation and with that it distorts all events and prophecy connections they try to make.

Does Bible Prophecy Point to the Modern State of Israel?

TODAY the world nervously watches the Middle East. Rocket attacks, clashes of armed militias, and terrorist bombings are frequent occurrences. Add to this explosive mixture the very real possibility that nuclear weapons could be used. No wonder people everywhere are worried!

The world was also anxiously watching the Middle East in May of 1948. At that time, 62 years ago, the British mandate to occupy what was then called Palestine was ending, and war was imminent. The year before, the United Nations had authorized the creation of an independent Jewish State in a portion of the occupied territories. The surrounding Arab nations had vowed to prevent this at any cost. “The partition line shall be nothing but a line of fire and blood,” warned the Arab League.

It was Friday afternoon, May 14, 1948, at 4:00 p.m. The final hours of the British mandate were ticking away. In the Tel Aviv Museum, a small crowd of 350 onlookers were present by secret invitation for an eagerly anticipated announcement​—the formal declaration of statehood for the modern-day nation of Israel. Security was tight, lest the numerous enemies of the fledgling State attack the proceedings.

David Ben-Gurion, the leader of Israel’s National Council, read The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel. It stated, in part: “We, members of the People’s Council, representatives of the Jewish Community of Eretz-Israel . . . by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the Resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, hereby declare the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.”

A Fulfillment of Bible Prophecy?
Some Evangelical Protestants believe that the modern State of Israel thus fulfilled a Bible prophecy. For example, in the book Jerusalem Countdown, clergyman John Hagee states: “This momentous occasion had been recorded by the pen of the prophet Isaiah, saying, ‘A nation shall be born in a day.’ (See Isaiah 66:8.) . . . It was the greatest moment in prophetic history of the twentieth century. It was living evidence for all men to see that the God of Israel was alive and well.”

Is that statement true? Did Isaiah 66:8 predict the establishment of the modern State of Israel? Was May 14, 1948, the “greatest moment in prophetic history of the twentieth century”? If the modern State of Israel is still God’s chosen nation, and if he is using it to fulfill Bible prophecies, this would certainly be of interest to Bible students everywhere.

Isaiah’s prophecy states: “Who has heard of a thing like this? Who has seen things like these? Will a land be brought forth with labor pains in one day? Or will a nation be born at one time? For Zion has come into labor pains as well as given birth to her sons.” (Isaiah 66:8) The verse is clearly foretelling the sudden birth of an entire nation, as if in a single day. But who would cause this birth? The next verse gives a clue: “‘As for me, shall I cause the breaking through and not cause the giving birth?’ says Jehovah. ‘Or am I causing a giving birth and do I actually cause a shutting up?’ your God has said.” Jehovah God makes it clear that the dramatic birth of the nation would be his doing.

Modern Israel is governed as a secular democracy that officially makes no claim to rely on the God of the Bible. Did the Israelis in 1948 recognize Jehovah God as the one responsible for their declaration of statehood? They did not. Neither the name of God nor even the word “God” was mentioned anywhere in the original text of the proclamation. The book Great Moments in Jewish History says this of the final text: “Even at 1:00 P.M. when the National Council met, its members could not agree about the wording of the proclamation of statehood. . . . Observant Jews wanted a reference to ‘the God of Israel.’ Secularists balked. Compromising, Ben-Gurion decided that the word ‘Rock’ would appear instead of ‘God.’”

The modern State of Israel to this day bases its claim to statehood on a UN resolution and what it calls the natural and historic right of the Jewish people. Is it reasonable to expect that the God of the Bible would perform the greatest prophetic miracle in the 20th century in behalf of a people who refuse to give him credit?

How Does the Modern Claim to Statehood Compare?
Modern Israel’s secular attitude contrasts sharply with the situation in 537 B.C.E. Back then, the nation of Israel was indeed ‘reborn’ as if in a day after being devastated and depopulated by the Babylonians 70 years earlier. At that time, Isaiah 66:8 was strikingly fulfilled when the Persian conqueror of Babylon, Cyrus the Great, authorized the return of the Jews to their homeland.​—Ezra 1:2.

The Persian King Cyrus recognized Jehovah’s hand in the matter in 537 B.C.E., and those who returned to Jerusalem did so for the express purpose of restoring the worship of Jehovah God and rebuilding his temple. The modern State of Israel has never officially declared any such desire or intention.

Still God’s Chosen Nation?
In the year 33 C.E., the fleshly nation of Israel lost its claim to be God’s chosen nation when it rejected Jehovah’s Son, the Messiah. The Messiah himself put it this way: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her . . . Look! Your house is abandoned to you.” (Matthew 23:37, 38) Jesus’ statement came true when in 70 C.E., Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem along with its temple and priesthood. But what was to become of God’s purpose to have a “special property out of all other peoples, . . . a kingdom of priests and a holy nation”?​—Exodus 19:5, 6.

The apostle Peter, himself a fleshly Jew, answered that question in a letter written to Christians​—both Gentile and Jewish. He wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession,’ . . . for you were once not a people, but are now God’s people; you were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.”​—1 Peter 2:7-10.

Christians who were selected by holy spirit thus belong to a spiritual nation, their membership not being determined by birth or geographic location. The apostle Paul described the matter this way: “Neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation is something. And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God.”​—Galatians 6:15, 16.

Whereas the modern nation of Israel offers to confer citizenship upon any natural or converted Jew, citizenship in what the Bible calls “the Israel of God” is given only to those who are “obedient and sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:1, 2) Speaking of these members of the Israel of God, or spiritual Jews, Paul wrote: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.”​—Romans 2:28, 29.

That verse helps us understand a controversial comment Paul made. In his letter to the Romans, Paul explained how the unbelieving natural Jews were like branches of a symbolic olive tree that were lopped off so that “wild” Gentile “branches” could be grafted in. (Romans 11:17-21) Concluding this illustration, he states: “A dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved.” (Romans 11:25, 26) Was Paul foretelling an eleventh hour mass conversion of the Jews to Christianity? Clearly, no such conversion has taken place.


What did Paul’s illustration of the olive tree mean?
By the expression “all Israel,” Paul meant all of spiritual Israel​—Christians who have been selected by holy spirit. He was saying that the failure of the natural Jews to accept the Messiah would not thwart God’s purpose to have a spiritual ‘olive tree’ full of productive branches. This is in harmony with Jesus’ own illustration of himself as a vine whose nonproductive branches will be lopped off. Jesus said: “I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. Every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes away, and every one bearing fruit he cleans, that it may bear more fruit.”​—John 15:1, 2.

Although the establishment of the modern State of Israel was not foretold in the Bible, the establishment of the nation of spiritual Israel certainly was! If you identify and associate with that spiritual nation today, you will reap eternal blessings.​—Genesis 22:15-18; Galatians 3:8, 9.


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Jan 31 2018 06:25am
Quote (PowerTripped @ Jan 31 2018 11:35am)
Hate to tell you but all of those aren’t accurate. God said he would abandon forever the nation of Israel because of their refusal to acknowledge his son and make changes. He would then establish a spiritual Israel of those from all tribes and nations. That Israel would be in a state of unrest until the end of this system of things. Many still think Israel is God’s chosen nation and with that it distorts all events and prophecy connections they try to make.


You are wrong, here is why:

Many Christians in the United States believe that it is their biblical responsibility to support the contemporary Jewish State of Israel for specific theological reasons (as opposed to general political ones), a view known as Christian Zionism. The Pew Research Center put the figure at 63 percent for white evangelicals. This view holds that the regathering of Jewish people to Israel since 1948 is the miraculous fulfillment of God’s promises to Abraham to establish Israel as a nation forever in Palestine. Tim LaHaye’s Left Behind novels, together with books written by Hal Lindsey, Pat Robertson, and many others, which propound this view, have sold well over 100 million copies. Burgeoning Christian Zionist organizations such as the International Christian Embassy and Christians United for Israel wield immense influence on Capitol Hill, making Christian Zionism the largest single‐issue political lobby to come from Western Christianity. A growing number of Christians, however, are left increasingly uneasy about the idea that God would bring the Jewish people back to Palestine while they are in unbelief, since that was why they were exiled from it in the first place. The methods Israel has used, moreover, to colonize the land and subjugate the Palestinians— many of whom are Christians—do not match the picture of a God‐fearing Israel that Christian Zionists find in their literal interpretation of the ancient prophecies. An alternate interpretation is that the promises of land, like the laws of Moses, were part of the Old Covenant, which was fulfilled in the New Covenant. These Old Covenant shadows were realized in and through the substance of Jesus Christ and the church. Christian Zionists’ unconditional support of the current State of Israel would therefore be a misguided effort to separate Jews and Gentiles again, whom God joined together in the church, the body of Christ.

“For the first time in more than 2,000 years Jerusalem is now completely in the hands of the Jews and gives the student of the Bible a thrill and a renewed faith in the accuracy and validity of the Bible.”1 Billy Graham’s father‐in‐law, L. Nelson Bell, then editor of Christianity Today, expressed the sentiments of millions of American evangelicals when he described the Israeli capture of Jerusalem in 1967 as fulfillment of biblical prophecy. The roots of Christian interest in Israel can be traced to the Bible prophecy movement in Britain and the speculations of Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby in the early nineteenth century. The 1967 ”Six Day War,” however, marked a significant turning point for fundamentalists and evangelicals with such interest; it fueled among them a resurgence of enthusiasm for Eretz Israel (“Land of Israel”), that is, a resurgence of support for the State of Israel.2 Christians who support the contemporary Jewish nation for theological rather than political reasons are part of a movement, born out of the Bible prophecy movement, that is referred to as Christian Zionism.3

In 1976, a series of events brought contemporary Christian Zionists to the forefront of U.S. mainstream politics. Jimmy Carter was elected president as a ”born¬again” Christian, drawing the support of the evangelical right. The following year Menachem Begin and the right¬wing Likud Party came to power in Israel. A tripartite coalition slowly emerged in the United States among the political right, evangelicalChristians, and the Jewish lobby that increasingly used biblical language to describe the condition of modern Israel. Jimmy Carter later acknowledged how his own pro-Zionist beliefs had influenced his Middle East policy.4 He also described how his generation was witnessing “a return at last, to the biblical land from which the Jews were driven so many hundreds of years ago,” the fulfillment of biblical prophecy, stating that the establishment of the nation of Israel was the “very essence.”5 When Carter vacillated over the aggressive Likud settlement program and proposed the creation of a Palestinian homeland, however, he alienated the pro-Israeli coalition, who switched their support to Ronald Reagan in the 1980 elections.

Reagan’s legal secretary, Herb Ellingwood, one of the most fervent believers in Eretz Israel and the imminent war of Armageddon, described how he and Reagan often discussed the fulfillment of biblical prophecy, according to author Grace Halsell. “White House seminars” became a regular feature of Reagan’s administration, bringing leading Christian Zionists into direct personal contact with national and congressional leaders. In 1982, for example, Reagan invited Jerry Falwell to brief the National Security Council on the possibility of a nuclear war with Russia.7 Two years later, Reagan shared his personal convictions in a conversation with Tom Dine, one of Israel’s chief lobbyists working for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee: “I turn back to the ancient prophets in the Old Testament and the signs foretelling Armageddon, and I find myself wondering if…we’re the generation that is going to see that come about. I don’t know if you’ve noted any of these prophecies lately, but believe me, they certainly describe the times we’re going through.”8

Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton do not appear to have shared the same theological convictions concerning Israel as their predecessors, but George W. Bush proves to be more of an enigma. He has not explicitly affirmed Christian Zionist beliefs and he does advocate a two‐state solution, but his strong support of Israel and statements such as the following, made in 2001 before a Jewish audience, are consistent with Christian Zionist convictions: “Through centuries of struggle, Jews across the world have been witnesses not only against the crimes of men, but for faith in God, and God alone. Theirs is a story of defiance in oppression and patience in tribulation—reaching back to the exodus and their exile into the diaspora. That story continued in the founding of the State of Israel. The story continues in the defense of the State of Israel.”9

The Bible prophecy movement is typified as much by Tim LaHaye’s fictional Left Behind series of novels as by John Hagee’s political organization, Christians United for Israel. Hal Lindsey, however, is undoubtedly the most influential Bible prophecy proponent of the twentieth century. Time magazine described him as “the Jeremiah for this generation,”10 and his present publisher calls him “the father of the modern-day Bible prophecy movement”11 and the “best known prophecy teacher in the world.”12 The New York Times Book Review called Lindsey’s most famous book, The Late Great Planet Earth, the nonfiction bestseller of the 1970s.13 The book has spawned more than 20 sequels, and approximately 40 million copies of it have been published in 54 languages. The back cover of Lindsey’s Planet Earth 2000, for example, promises, ‘‘Hal will be your guide on a chilling tour of the world’s future battlefields as the Great Tribulation, foretold more than two thousand years ago by Old and New Testament prophets, begins to unfold. You’ll meet the world leaders who will bring man to the very edge of extinction and examine the causes of the current global situation—what it all means, what will shortly come to pass, and how it will all turn out.”14

Many evangelical Protestants see a connection between Israel and the fulfillment of biblical prophecy and/or believe that God gave Israel to the Jews in 1948. At least 60% of those with such beliefs support the state of Israel,15 and 32% cite their religious beliefs as the primary reason for such support.16 It is my conclusion, after 10 years of postgraduate research on the subject, that Christian Zionism is the largest, most controversial, and most influential single‐issue political lobby within Western Christianity today.17 As such, the foundations on which this widespread position rest are open to examination. I propose to examine those foundations by addressing two questions: first, does the regathering of the Jewish people to the contemporary State of Israel have any theological significance in terms of the fulfillment of biblical prophecy?; and second, does the evidence in the Bible suggest that it endorses or that it rejects the Zionist ideology? In answer to these questions, I first will explain the relationship between the Old and New Testaments. Then I will examine the meaning of the Abrahamic covenant, the ethical requirements of the covenant relationship, the concept of inheritance in the New Testament, and, finally, the meaning of terms such as the elect and chosen people when discussed from a Christian perspective.

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS

Christian Zionists assume an ultraliteral hermeneutic when interpreting Old Testament promises concerning the people of God, the land of Israel, Jerusalem, and the Temple, and believe that those promises are being fulfilled literally today. The International Christian Embassy affirms, for example, “The modern ingathering of the Jewish People to Eretz Israel and the rebirth of the nation of Israel are in fulfillment of biblical prophecies.”19 Christian Zionists assume that the Old and New Testaments run parallel into the future, the former speaking of Israel and the latter speaking of the church; however, this is not the way the New Testament interprets, fulfills, and completes the Old. For example, Jesus annulled the Levitical food laws when He said, “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body. (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)” (Mark 7:18–19).20

In Acts 10, God uses a vision of unclean food specifically to help the apostle Peter realize that in Christ there no longer is any distinction between Jew and Gentile—God accepts both equally into His kingdom. Only when Peter encounters Cornelius does he begin to realize the implications of the vision for the way he should now view Jews and Gentiles: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right” (Acts 10:34–35). If God does not show favoritism, neither should we. The Jews no longer enjoy a favored or exclusive status. The book of Hebrews explains the progressive movement of biblical revelation more fully. The Old Testament revelation from God often came in shadow, image, and prophecy. That revelation finds its consummation and fulfillment in the New Covenant (i.e., Testament) in Jesus Christ. The writer to the Hebrews, then, declares, “By calling this covenant ‘new,’ he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear” (Heb. 8:13). He insists later, “The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship” (Heb. 10:1).

It is essential that Christians interpret the Old Testament in the light of the New Testament, not the other way around. Paul insists, for example, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ” (Col. 2:16–17). The question, therefore, is not whether the promises of the Old Testament should be understood allegorically or literally. It is instead a question of whether they should be understood in terms of shadow or substance.

THE CONCEPT OF INHERITANCE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Christian Zionists’ preoccupation with a literal fulfillment of biblical prophecy in Israel today is most apparent regarding the status of Jerusalem. In Galatians 4, Paul criticized the “Jerusalem-dependency”23 of the legalists who were infecting the church in Galatia. In verse 27 he cites Isaiah 54:1, which refers to the earthly Jerusalem, and applies it to the home of all who believe in Jesus Christ. Access to heaven no longer has anything to do with an earthly Jerusalem. Jesus made this clear to the woman of Samaria: “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem…a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks” (John 4:21–23).

Jesus explained at His trial why this is so: “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place” (John 18:36). He thus repudiated the idea that His kingdom involves the establishment of an earthly Jewish kingdom, a mere shadow. Before the resurrection encounters and Pentecost, the disciples seemed to share the same understanding of the land promises as the other first-century Jews: they looked forward to God’s decisive intervention in history that would restore political sovereignty to the Jews within the Promised Land. This is reflected in the words of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, who confessed, “We had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel” (Luke 24:21). It also must have been the idea in the minds of the disciples when, before the ascension, they asked, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6). John Calvin comments, “There are as many mistakes in this question as there are words.”24 Jesus redefined and expanded their understanding of the nature of the kingdom of God and thereby the meaning of chosenness. The expansion of the kingdom of God throughout the world requires the permanent exile of the apostles from the land. They are sent out into the world with one‐way tickets, and are not told to return.

After Pentecost, the apostles begin to use Old Covenant language concerning the land in new ways. Peter, for example, speaks of an inheritance that, unlike the land, “can never perish, spoil or fade” (1 Pet. 1:4). Paul, likewise, asserts, “Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified” (Acts 20:32). The New Testament authors insist that through faith in Christ we already inhabit the heavenly Jerusalem and look forward to its appearing (Heb. 12:22–23). Paul, similarly, insists, “But the Jerusalem that is above is free” (Gal. 4:26). The limitations of the literal land, which was but a shadow of the coming substance, and which provided a temporary home for God’s emerging people and a geographical context for the incarnation, have been transcended. The direction now is outward from Jerusalem, stretching through the Great Commission to the uttermost ends of the earth.25

Paul used the Old Testament story of Sarah and Hagar to inoculate the Galatian believers against the infiltration of the legalistic Judaizers (Gal 4:21–31). He compares Jerusalem, which had rejected Jesus, to Hagar and her slave children (v. 25). He then likens the Galatian believers to Isaac and describes them as “children of promise” (v. 28). Paul’s critical analogy could perhaps apply to some forms of Messianic Judaism today that require Torah obedience, as well as to the political system in Israel which, because of proportional representation, is metaphorically “held captive” to minority religious political parties that are tied to orthodox Judaism (which itself is historically rooted in, and continuous with, New Testament Pharisaism). After Pentecost, the apostles in no sense believed that the Jewish people still had a divine right to a kingdom centered in Jerusalem, or that this would be an important, let alone central, aspect of God’s future purposes for the world. In Paul’s christological thinking, God has superseded the land, like the law, in His redemptive purposes.

ELECTION AND THE PEOPLE OF GOD

Based on their literal reading of the Old Testament, Christian Zionists believe that the Jews remain God’s “chosen people” who enjoy a unique relationship, status, and eternal purpose within their own land, separate from any promises made to the church. Christian Friends of Israel, for example, insists, “The Bible teaches that Israel (people, land, nation) has a Divinely ordained and glorious future, and that God has neither rejected nor replaced His Jewish people.”26 Jews for Jesus likewise perpetuates the distinction between God’s purposes for Israel and His purposes for the church—the latter being merely a “parenthesis”27 in God’s plan for the Jews: “We believe that Israel exists as a covenant people through whom God continues to accomplish His purposes and that the Church is an elect people in accordance with the New Covenant, comprising both Jews and Gentiles who acknowledge Jesus as Messiah and Redeemer.”28

This contradicts John the Baptist’s statement: “Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire” (Luke 3:8–9). Jesus similarly insisted, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). Jesus then used the analogy of the vine and branches to explain the relationship between God and His people (John 15:1–6); clearly, Jesus, not Israel, is the vine; His followers, not national Israel, are the branches of the vine. Remaining part of the vine and bearing fruit depends on a personal relationship with Jesus, not on heredity. This is the reason Peter warned his hearers soon after the day of Pentecost that if they refused to recognize Jesus as their Messiah, they would cease to be the “people of God” (Gk. laos): “Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people” (Acts 3:23). Paul elaborates on the analogy of the vine in Romans 11:17–21 to explain the relationship between the natural branches (Israel) and the wild branches (Gentiles). It is significant that in the New Testament the term chosen is never used exclusively of the Jewish people. It is used only to refer to Jesus or the church, the body of Christ (e.g., Col. 3:12).

Peter also draws terms from the Old Testament that describe Israel and applies them to the church: “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy” (1 Pet. 2:9–10). It is, therefore, no longer appropriate to describe the Jews as God’s “chosen people.” This term has been redefined theologically to describe all those who trust in Jesus Christ, irrespective of race. This view sometimes is caricatured as supersessionism or replacement theology, that is, the belief that the church has superseded or replaced Israel. The New Testament does not teach that the Gentiles have uperseded the Jews; but neither does it teach a racial exclusivity that gives Jewish people preferential or levated status. According to Paul, God’s intention has always been to break down the “wall of partition” and create for Himself one new people, drawn from every race (Eph. 2:11–16).

ZIONISM THROUGH DISPENSATIONALISM

The Bible prophecy movement, born within British evangelicalism in the nineteenth century, reached mainstream American evangelicalism in the twentieth century. It became institutionalized through a view known as dispensationalism, which sees in history a succession of biblical eras, or dispensations, that are distinguished by God’s different methods of dealing with His people. In this view, the era of the church is different from the coming era of a literal kingdom in which the returning Christ reigns over Israel in the Promised Land for a thousand years. Kenneth Cragg satirically summarizes the implications of this ethnic exclusivity and simplistic dualism:

It is so; God chose the Jews; the land is theirs by divine gift. These dicta cannot be questioned or resisted. They are final. Such verdicts come infallibly from Christian biblicists for whom Israel can do no wrong—thus fortified. But can such positivism, this unquestioning finality, be compatible with the integrity of the Prophets themselves? It certainly cannot square with the open peoplehood under God which is the crux of New Testament faith. Nor can it well be reconciled with the ethical demands central to law and election alike. Christian Zionism thrives on a literal and futurist hermeneutic in which Old Testament promises made to the ancient Jewish people are transferred to the contemporary State of Israel in anticipation of a final future fulfillment. It ignores, marginalizes, or bypasses New Testament passages that reinterpret, annul, or describe the fulfillment of these promises in and through Jesus Christ.

The process of redemptive history has yielded a dramatic movement, from shadow to substance. The land that God once constrained to the specific place of His redemptive purpose He then expanded to the entire breadth of the created cosmos, through the New Covenant. The exalted Christ rules sovereign over the entire world, from the heavenly Jerusalem. The substance cannot give way again to shadow, for in the will and purposes of God the shadows no longer exist. The light has come in Jesus Christ: “By calling this covenant ‘new,’ he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear” (Heb. 8:13). The choice, therefore, is between two theologies: one based on the shadows of the Old Covenant and one based on the substance of the New Covenant. Christian Zionism offers an exclusive theology that focuses on the Jews in the land rather than an inclusive theology that centers on the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ. It is time to stop fighting over the birthright, like Isaac’s sons Jacob and Esau, and start sharing the blessings.

This post was edited by CPK001 on Jan 31 2018 06:27am
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