very nice guide

tried out out shael lo zerk and it did well pretty much vs anything with cerby setup(20 fhr) though I haven't fvf'd so it's hard to say if it was goodthere

If you ever need tests feel free to pm inkanddagger or myself for duels if you are east Nl, if you are west Nl you can pm Lycans

From a damage per second perspective, I'd actually prefer to go down to 5 frame and use a zerk, but I can't afford one

9+5+5+5=24 frames
7+4+4+4+4=23 frames
There are 25 frames in a second, so 5 frame weapons can hit 4 times and 4 frame weapons can hit 5 times in a second.

So you can hit 4 times per second with a 5 frame axe or 5 times per second with a 4 frame phase/fk/ataghan

So a 300% ed 40ias fools phase blade (2x 40/15) for example would do 223-301
Zerk would do 172-560 with 2x 40/15 or with shael+Lo run it would do 144-475

PB with 52% ds average = 398 average
2x 40/15 Zerk with 52% ds average = 556 average
Shael + Lo Zerk with 72% ds average = 532 average

556*4 = 2224 dps
532*4 = 2128 dps
398*5 = 1990 dps

5 frame 2x 40/15 fools axe wins over 4 frame fools phase blade.

Botdz also wins the DPS battle over 4 framers, but is only useful vs other wolves and not vs zeal or conc because you really need the attack rating.

Also note that Ettin Axe or Seraph Rod would be better than Zerk if you wanted an "ultimate" 5 frame eth rep fools weapons for fury (49.5 base weapon average vs 47.5). Both are 10 base so they need 70 weapon ias to = 60 total, which is the 5 frame breakpoint. Small Crescent is also better with 49 base average, and Devil Star with 48. A Legendary Mallet with two Shael Runes is also better.

If I had my choice, it would be a tough decision between Seraph and Zerk. Zerk has better range, Seraph has better damage and mace class weapons tend to do a better job of forcing opponents into FHR than zerks.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Apr 6 2015 12:10pm

Can't edit but Ettin/Seraph (2x 40ed/15ias needed to hit breakpoint) would be:

578*4 = 2312 dps

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Apr 6 2015 12:52pm

Ok, so if you go 4 frame, you obviously dont need a cham or a raven. If you go 5 frame you do so you lose a soc or ring spot. How much will this factor into the damage of 4 frame vs 5?

That's a great question.

In terms of damage, you'd want to consider 9 min from a ring [and 15-20 stats plus some life] or 30% ed (most common) [and 18 stats and some small amount of attack rating.]

9 min from a ring will push the average damage on the Phase Blade I used in my earlier example to 405, or 2025. This is closer, but the Zerk still wins by a lot, and the Seraph/Ettin by more still.

The 30% ed I don't need to run calculations for, because it's pretty obvious that enhanced damage will add more average damage to a weapon with higher base damage, and the damage lost from 30% ed out of an otherwise huge enhanced damage pool is not going to be enough to reduce the damage of a Seraph/Ettin/Zerk below the Phase Blade. You'd likely need to drop about 100% enhanced damage or more for that to happen.

So the real consideration here is about stats and whether you'd want to use a cham or replace a ring with a Raven Frost (RF).

The best jewel is going to have 18 stats. A ring can have up to 20 more stats than a Raven Frost. Additionally, a ring can have up to 60 life, equivalent to 30 more stats on a Druid. So a crafted ring generally wins hands down over a RF in terms of life. But a RF will have 130 attack rating above the very best craft roll, and the ability to freeze opponents who aren't wearing an item with Cannot Be Frozen.

A 30/60/9/9 jewel, after everything is all added in, will add about 75 total average damage to a Phase Blade or about 200 average to one of the higher damage 5 framers.

So let's put all the information we have together:

Ignoring second ring slot:

Phase Blade with Stat Ring and 30/60/9/9 Jewel in Pelt = up to 106 stats (212 life = ~1100 life after Lycanthropy and Battle Orders).
5 Framer with Stat Ring and Cham in Pelt = up to 70 stats (140 base life = ~800 life)
5 Framer with Raven Frost and 30/60/9/9 = up to 56 stats ( 112 base life = ~600 life)

So Cham in Pelt with a second stat ring looks better for the 5 Framer.

You'll drop approximately 300 life vs 4 Frame.

But let's look at damage:

You'll have 1142% enhanced damage instead of 1172% by using a Cham in Pelt.

1172% * Phase Blade average = 398 * 12.72 = 5062 average * 5 = 25,312 DPS
1142% * Zerk average = 556 * 12.42 = 6905 average * 4 = 27,662 DPS
1142% * Ettin/Seraph average = 578 * 12.42 = 7178 average * 4 = 28,712 DPS

3400 More DPS * .17 PvP Penalty * .5 Damage Reduced = 289 more DPS on a setup similar to the first one I posted on this topic (20 FHR Cerebus' Bite setup)


TL;DR

So the question becomes do you sacrifice ~300 life to gain 2100 average damage (178 after penalties).

Over the course of 6 successful hits, on average you will do 1k more actual damage to your opponent.

Of course, your Pelt doesn't look as sexy with a Cham in it, and 9800 life doesn't look as good at 10100, but you'll still win more duels.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Apr 6 2015 06:07pm

i love these maths and theorycrafting, great stuff

Melee is all about tweaking and tweaking and tweaking some more.

Nice guide, i think this works nicely! Good job m8!

Excellent guide! Thank you... The fhr explanations helped a lot.

Melee > all